Tournarocker Diversion Build

[9W Monighan]

Since I don't have any trucks to fool around with I decided to convert an old 1953 Nylint Tournarocker sandbox toy to RC. The 1:1 machine was a diesel electric driven tractor steered by turning switches on and off on the dash and dumping is achieved by a winch with it's cable attached under the rear axle that pulls the rear forward dumping it's payload. I'll update some vintage photos when I scan them.
I want this to be a fairly simple conversion that uses a dual transmission controlled by a Dual Sabertooth motor control giving the machine "tank" steering similar to the 1:1 machine.
Original toy only thing missing is the oscillating hitch :
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/8499/dscn0785sz.jpg

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/6826/dscn0786.jpg

Here is the start of the housing:
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2772/dscn0779mf.jpg

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7418/dscn0778q.jpg

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/7149/dscn0781je.jpg

Tapping 1-72 threads is SO much easier than tapping the thousands of 0-80 threads on my dragline model.:)
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6528/dscn0782me.jpg

Trying to find the sizes the ring and pinion are set up to.:confused:
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/680/dscn0783g.jpg

This set up is a Axial 13/43 ratio. This is a nice gear set -Helical and heat treated.
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/67/dscn0784u.jpg

Half partially done. I want to install ball bearings through out when Im sure I have the ring and pinion set correctly.
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/1241/dscn0787d.jpg

[mazdaparts]

I've seen video of the 1:1 and its a pretty interesting machine. This will be a cool build.

[RCTech9]

Cant wait to see this working.;)

[Jared]

Love it! Those are good looking gears! Those are some of the more conventional Letourneau machines. My dad ran one a little. He said if you spin out you can inch your way out by setting the front brakes, raising the box, setting the rear brakes and lowering it. Repeat as often as needed.

[Brian in PA]

Looks cool Steve. I had a toy similar to that when I was younger. I think it was green though?

Brian

[Claus]

Wow!! Amazing already! Cool that it is so different too.

[SmallHaul]

Nice start Steve.

[Espeefan]

I like your machine work! You are already off to a great start. Any project that begins with custom machined parts is a good one. This will be an interesting project. I have never seen anything this Tournarocker before.

[modelman]

Very nice work as always steve-although I am not real clear on what you are doing I'm sure it will make sense later.

[JensR]

Fascinating project!
Looking good already :)

[fhhhstix]

Great idea and it looks like you are off to a good start. Now if I understand what you are doing with the drive it will be front wheel drive and use separate motors for each side and the front will do the driving and steering as well. If that is the plan you will probably have a traction problem especially when it is loaded. You are going to need a lot of weight in the front with some tires with a lot of traction. Good luck and I cant wait to see how it turns out.

Travis

[9W Monighan]

Thanks for all the encouraging words you guys. SmallHaul Scott captured a nice video of one of these machines at our steam show this past August.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SmallHaul#p/a/u/1/RRxBpOnc3pw

Travis, The way it can wiggle side to side should give decent traction. I'm real skeptical about the original hard rubber tires but they're going to be tried before I change them. I may have to set them up in the mill and cut some relief in the lugs like pulling tractor tires. As far as weight, I'll play that by ear. The thing is pretty heavy already. I don't know what battery setup I'll need yet. I'm looking for about 12v.

[Lil Giants]

I've never seen anything like this before, toy or real life. What a concept for simplicity! :cool:

Great video Scott.

[modelman]

Any progress on the drive system?

[9W Monighan]

No progress yet Tom. I have some side work that's occupying my time in the evenings.

[tc1cat]

What a different type of truck:eek::eek: Can't wait to see yours running!

[9W Monighan]

Decided to work on this some more this weekend. I still have to get another ring and pinion to put both sides together. I tested the one side and it works very smoothly and not much gear noise at all. I did manage to make the wheel hubs but I need some longer #2-56 lug bolts. Maybe by the end of the week I'll be able to test run it.

Cutting the gearbox cover:
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1989/dscn0860v.jpg
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5806/dscn0861q.jpg

Turning one of the hubs. I used steel so I get as much weight as possible for better traction.
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4120/dscn0864e.jpg

Centering part to get the lug bolt holes and undercut where the original toy's bearing would hit:
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/1461/dscn0865r.jpg

Undercutting for the original hub bushing:
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/6475/dscn0866m.jpg

Drill:
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/6366/dscn0867mb.jpg

Tap for #2-56 bolts:
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/6831/dscn0868ej.jpg

3/4 done:
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/7802/dscn0869z.jpg

[Espeefan]

Great progress! I take it your mill is CNC? I don't see a rotary indexing table in the photo, taken during the undercutting picture or hole drilling process.

How hard was it to set up your gear mesh? I'm kind of curious how you went about it. Looks like you took some measurements off the granite table and adjusted the shims under the gear till the mesh was perfect. Then bored the holes in the gearbox to get it right on.

I like how you share photos of the machining process. Helps newbies, like me, learn some new things.

[9W Monighan]

Great progress! I take it your mill is CNC? I don't see a rotary indexing table in the photo, taken during the undercutting picture or hole drilling process.

How hard was it to set up your gear mesh? I'm kind of curious how you went about it. Looks like you took some measurements off the granite table and adjusted the shims under the gear till the mesh was perfect. Then bored the holes in the gearbox to get it right on.

I like how you share photos of the machining process. Helps newbies, like me, learn some new things.

Yes my mill is CNC. The gear setup I guess I just got lucky so far from the measurements taken from the granite plate . It seemed to be OK the first time around. I don't have the ring bolted to that aluminum spacer yet so there is slight wobble but it is fit really close to the shim on a counterbore. The spacer will also get a set screw in it to lock the works to the 3/16'' axle. I was going to get it all together , test it then add ball bearings on everything but my hole tolerances are pretty good and the shafts all fit in no more than +.0005-.001'' clearance. I hope the original wheels and rims will work out. As of now they wobble pretty bad on the hub. I still need to drill the rims to match the 16 holes in the hubs. Hopefully when I tighten the lugs, the two rim halves will true themselves better. I don't know how it will all work because there's air space between the halves.

[Espeefan]

Very nice! Thanks for the insight! So judging from your photos, it looks like you use a reamer to make the bushing and bearing holes more precise? Would an end mill leave the fit sloppy?

[9W Monighan]

Very nice! Thanks for the insight! So judging from your photos, it looks like you use a reamer to make the bushing and bearing holes more precise? Would an end mill leave the fit sloppy?

I first drill undersize, then bore, then ream to finish. If I want real precision I'll hone the bore. On the lathe I always drill, bore to make everything concentric then ream if necessary or hone.

[modelman]

Nice work steve-Those look like planetary g.m's. plus more gearing to the pinions. You should have lots of power!!

[td9clyde]

nice work this is another cool project

[9W Monighan]

Finally got the other ring and pinion ordered and now I have it installed in the gear case. I put everything together and taped the electrics on and gave it a try. The thing steers and very nice but the motors are WAY too weak to do any justice. Actually there's a gear inside slipping on a shaft as I can hear the motor running. This is my first time mine you,that I have built a RC vehicle other than my walking dragline so this stuff is all new to me. I'm going to have to try some other motors but the size will be a big factor. The Swiss Maxon motors are sure nice quality motors but I don't understand the numbering system they use to choose the proper size and RPM,and the green ones I've been picking up on Ebay use their old numbering system and there's no old links giving this info.
I'm going to look at some of the BaneBot motors I guess unless anybody has any ideas but as far as size; They need to be no more than 1''OD x 3.5''L and speed around 300rpm.
Drilling wheels. The old toy wheels sure wobble!
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9973/dscn0870fp.jpg

Ring gear spool:
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/7480/dscn0871z.jpg

Tapping spool:
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/6935/dscn0872q.jpg

Found out that some of the Traxxas gears are heat treated, I fixed that with a quick annealing from the jewelers torch.
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8131/dscn0873t.jpg
Cooling down
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8421/dscn0874x.jpg

Inside the 2nd gear reduction:
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7121/dscn0875xm.jpg

Finals:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5254/dscn0876p.jpg

I'll have to make a cover I guess for the finals .
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9008/dscn0877j.jpg

[crawler07]

How in the **** did you get the gear mesh set without having any adjustment!!! I guess when your good your good!!I look forward to each and every post from you man..Why not just use a couple of RC4WD 45,55 or 65 turn motors?

[Espeefan]

That's some nice machine work!

For Banebots planetaries, the 540/550 sized gearboxes are 1.5 square, O.D. Length varies with the number of stages. I have a 256:1 sitting right here and it's 2 and 13/16" long. That's just the gearbox. Motors add length. You might have to go with something smaller. They make some 390 sized planetaries, but I don't know the dimensions. They are really good about listing all the major dimensions you need, right online.

I'd suggest checking out Servo City's precision gearhead motors too. They are more compact, run on 12-24 volts and can be purchased in a variety of RPMs.

You can always mix and match Banebots planetaries with different motors to get a good workable RPM range. Just need to do some simple math and figure out what the motor's Kv rating is. Kv = RPM/volt.

[rockNmayhem]

Wow that differential looks great. I love how it fits just inside the body, are you going to bolt it staight in or are you gonna make a complete frame for it to go with?

Tyler

[modelman]

Very nice work steve-I didn't realize these motors were this small. This is the same problem I had -finding small dia. motors with enough torque but I had 1.35" dia. to work with. Have you looked at "robotmarketplace". They have some small dia. motors but are not going to be high in torque rating. The "beetle-62:1 is .86"dia. and 300RPM but not much torque. Hope you find something, I'm anxious to see this work!

[JensR]

Some things to consider:

Angle the whole assembly slighty (or a lot) upwards. This might offer a bit of space.

Use motors with non-concentric (eccentric) output shafts and arrange them so that they use the space better. (There's quite a bit of empty space between the motors now, so the motor housings could be rotated inwards with eccentric shafts.)
RB35 motors, replaced with 380/400 sized motors are a force to be reckoned with and have eccentric output shafts.
Como-Drill also makes some nice gear motors like that.

[JAMMER]

Looks real good Steve we will get to see it work in a few weeks. The evacuator is almost done and maybe I,ll get the loader done also. Ed

[9W Monighan]

Some things to consider:

Angle the whole assembly slighty (or a lot) upwards. This might offer a bit of space.

Use motors with non-concentric (eccentric) output shafts and arrange them so that they use the space better. (There's quite a bit of empty space between the motors now, so the motor housings could be rotated inwards with eccentric shafts.)
RB35 motors, replaced with 380/400 sized motors are a force to be reckoned with and have eccentric output shafts.
Como-Drill also makes some nice gear motors like that.

I've been looking into that type of motor you described. Pittman here in the states makes some like that. I haven't attached the drive to the toy yet so there is some room to angle about there but only 3''wide to work with. Most of the more powerful motors are getting close to 1.5''w.
Here is one that I'm considering:http://www.anaheimautomation.com/products/brush/dc-gearmotor-item.php?sID=245&pt=i&tID=103&cID=46
The model R19 is looking pretty good but looks like a special order in that ratio. I may go with the R27 but may need to overdrive the secondary reduction some. My final output speed is: 35RPM but would like to see 50rpm so it won't be so boring on a long haul.

[fhhhstix]

If you have the room for a 1.25in motor the Carson gear motor that they use for there scissor dump would be perfect for you, that is what we use to run the screw drives in our dump trucks. The shaft is offset to one side. The torque of these motors is unbelievable and it is the right RPM you are looking for

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Cab%20over%20dump/IM000706.jpg

Travis

[9W Monighan]

Thanks Travis, That looks like one of the motors I've been looking at. What rpm are you running in that hoist?

[9W Monighan]

How in the **** did you get the gear mesh set without having any adjustment!!! I guess when your good your good!!I look forward to each and every post from you man..Why not just use a couple of RC4WD 45,55 or 65 turn motors?

Look closer, There is some milling on the case where the pinion protrudes. I took about .015" off on one side and .010" other to get the pinion depth set. The brass bushing where the axle leaves the case; I can face some off there also. Both gear sets are not exactly the same and I had more trouble setting up the second set of gears. If this design works out, I do want to add ball bearings on the pinions and axles. But they turn pretty freely right now.
The motors, as I posted earlier, Have to be small gear motors and have ample torque to pull the load and fit into the narrow space under the frame.

[JensR]

These motors are close to the RB35 (popular in Europe) and even come in more rpm choices:
http://servocity.com/html/3-12v_gear_motors.html

Edit: these might be the same that Espeefan suggested?
They do have a 12-24V section as well, but the sleection is much smaller thanj for the ->12V motors:
http://servocity.com/html/12-24v_gear_motors.html

Similar style motors are offered on ebay, mainly being sent from China/Hongkong, search for gear motor.

[fhhhstix]

Thanks Travis, That looks like one of the motors I've been looking at. What rpm are you running in that hoist?

300 rpm. I am running them directly to the all thread.

Travis

[dirtpusher9]

That gear box looks great Steve. You could probably start building gearboxs and they would sell like hot cakes.

[9W Monighan]

That gear box looks great Steve. You could probably start building gearboxs and they would sell like hot cakes.

I see you're lurking about these days Joe:D
If this gearbox works out, it could be beefed up some and used in a dozer. I have an old Doepke D6 that this would fit right in the frame. A undercarriage would have to be built also. But I have enough projects started at the moment to build one of those.

[RCTech9]

Great Work!

[9W Monighan]

I'll be using 2 of these motors for the gearbox now. I just ordered the 3rd one down with the 14:1 ratio. Hope it has the power and speed I'll need.
http://anaheimautomation.com/products/brush/dc-gearmotor-item.php?sID=245&pt=i&tID=103&cID=46


.

[9W Monighan]

Well, the gearmotors turned out to be way underpowered so I found some stronger motors on ebay that put out 839gcm 21.6amp stall. I need to get some capacitors on them because they're glitching some. One problem with the new motors is they put out 16,200rpm vs. the 4000rpm motors. Now the Rocker goes too fast at full stick on the radio. I may get some larger reduction planetary's if I can't just limit the joystick travel on the DX7 transmitter.
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4500/dscn0925l.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5052/dscn0926f.jpg

All I had to do to adapt the new motor was gring down the long motor shaft.
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1341/dscn0927zr.jpg

[9W Monighan]

I spotted the Tournarocker running around my shop this evening. I did another planetary change from 14:1 to a 27:1. This slowed it down more and now I don't have to keep the travel set so low on the sticks. I also added a Li-Ion 6600mha battery pack that fits under the hood. I had to finally cut the original plastic motor out to make way for the battery. I better get some more done on this so it will be operational by Jan 13th.

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/6581/dscn1088d.jpg

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/4815/dscn1089i.jpg

[SmallHaul]

Vids,vids...:D

[RCP57]

Vids,vids...:D

I have to agree! I've been patiently waiting to see this thing in action.

[9W Monighan]

Here's the video. I would like to take a day and get the dump hoist installed, bolt the tranny in and make the hitch correct.
I just don't work on this that much.:o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDaM27S9hKs

[9W Monighan]

Here is a video we took today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDaM27S9hKs

[SmallHaul]

Drives nice.

[RCP57]

Very cool! I like the CRF230 and the dog too!

Reg

[9W Monighan]

Very cool! I like the CRF230 and the dog too!

Reg

Glad you like it guys.
The 04' CRF230 is my kids. The dog is my buddy but he gets too dirty running around the shop. Wife and I had to get a new kid now our boys are grown up:D

Ike:
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7052/dscn0727n.jpg

[9W Monighan]

Had time today to hook up the RC4x4 winch that I'm using for the dump hoist. Looks like it will work OK for now.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Scentlessapprentice9?feature=mhee#p/a/u/0/HHPCLuK0fhw

[SmallHaul]

Works well. Good job.:)

[9W Monighan]

I got my hitch made up. I had to machine one since the original one was missing.
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/4359/dscn1155s.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5434/dscn1157kt.jpg

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7387/dscn1158r.jpg

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/8436/dscn1159m.jpg

[sparkycuda]

This machine is just too cool! The old-school 1:1 and model are both so unique they just stand out from the pack of other machines. Great job!

Ken

[Lil Giants]

Looks & works pretty good Steve. Quite an unique toy conversion. :cool:

Looking forward to seeing this thing run around the dirt pile. How much dirt does it hold, like a gallon sized ice cream pail?

[9W Monighan]

This machine is just too cool! The old-school 1:1 and model are both so unique they just stand out from the pack of other machines. Great job!

Ken

Thanks Ken, We had one of these (1:1) at our steam show last summer and after seeing it operate I just had to do a conversion on one of these vintage toys.
Scott, (SmallHaul) caught it on video.

Looks & works pretty good Steve. Quite an unique toy conversion. :cool:

Looking forward to seeing this thing run around the dirt pile. How much dirt does it hold, like a gallon sized ice cream pail?

I hope the stock tires perform. I may opt for some 1.9 RC4x4 tires but I don't like the tread pattern. There is one with the chevron, but it doesn't look vintage enough. I should,like I said before, cast some replicas of the originals like Tom did on his triple 7 dump.
As far as capacity, I put 4- 12oz cup full of sand in the video but it will hold more if the material is wet. Here are the dimensions of the 1:1 9'-6''w x 4'-9.5'' max depth x 12'-5'' long and a capacity of 18ton. I figured the cu. in. of the bowl on the toy but I can't find my paper. This toy is really close to 1/16th scale.

[modelman]

Steve-this is really a unique model! After watching the video I wondered what you were going to do about the hitch but I see you fixed that little problem. Nice work!

[9W Monighan]

Steve-this is really a unique model! After watching the video I wondered what you were going to do about the hitch but I see you fixed that little problem. Nice work!

Thanks Tom, Now that the hitch is on I discovered the tractor is just alittle too front heavy. When I turn the tractor 90deg. it turns over like a tricycle does. (as seen on my videos:o) yesterday I added about 3/4# of bar solder in the hitch frame. This helped some but I guess I'll have to add a few ounces to the rear axle now. This isn't a problem when the bowl is filled with dirt, only empty and while turning tight left or right. Maybe a smaller battery would fix the problem but I want a long run time , which I'm getting with the 6600mah battery pack. I had it outside my door at my shop in the grass and it did fairly well until the skid plate hit some big chunks of grass. I ordered some RC4x4 1.9 Mud pluggers to see if they would be an improvement to the solid hard rubber originals and add some lead shot to them for more weight. They may be too big though. I might have to resort to what you have done on the triple 7.
http://store.rc4wd.com/thumbnail.asp?file=assets/images/mudplugger19web2.jpg&maxx=300&maxy=0

[Papy]

Really nice work, Steve.

The Joal smaller scale version of this model (http://www.toys-online-store.de/media/images/joal_222_cat_cat_631_muldenkipper_b1.jpg) was definitely one of my favorite toys when I was a kid (oh ! wait a minute.....I think I'm still a kid :p)

[modelman]

Steve-I saw the Tournarocker turn over in the video but I wasn't sure what happened. I figured the dog tipped it over:D. Do you need softer tires or a different design or both?

[Lil Giants]

Did you order four tires? Steel wheels & lead shot for the rear axle may cure your tipping problems. A little taller tire is better than smaller, better ground clearance & longer footprint for better traction.

[RCTech9]

Are you going to paint it?

[9W Monighan]

Steve-I saw the Tournarocker turn over in the video but I wasn't sure what happened. I figured the dog tipped it over:D. Do you need softer tires or a different design or both?

Dog just barks at it if one of his toys is in the bowl;)

Did you order four tires? Steel wheels & lead shot for the rear axle may cure your tipping problems. A little taller tire is better than smaller, better ground clearance & longer footprint for better traction.

I'm going to add some weight to the rear soon but not much because it will only take a few oz. to make it right. When there's a load of dirt,there's no problem. Yes I ordered some tires pictured above, but I want to make rims with a very deep dish like the 1:1.

Are you going to paint it?
Maybe after all the bugs are worked out,but it does add some character to a 59yr old toy.

[Arnd]

Hi, realy nice dumper.

Do you have any detailed information about the size of the original?
Or photos or blueprints?
I like this simplicity of this truck. No hydraulic, no steering-servo.
great!
I would like to set up such dumper in 1:14, so my Komatsu has a dumper to load.
thanks for your help.

[9W Monighan]

Hi, realy nice dumper.

Do you have any detailed information about the size of the original?
Or photos or blueprints?
I like this simplicity of this truck. No hydraulic, no steering-servo.
great!
I would like to set up such dumper in 1:14, so my Komatsu has a dumper to load.
thanks for your help.

I have a operators manual on the Tournarocker. I will try to scan it and post it up soon. If you review one of Smallhaul's youtube videos; There is one working in one of Scotts Brownsville,PA show drive around vids.


.