Marion 5561 Stripping Shovel

[9W Monighan]

Here is a shovel that I've been compiling information on for about 15yrs now. The Marion model 5561. This model was the first to use the; "Knee Action Crowd" eliminating the stress on the boom as stripping shovels evolved to larger CY capacity. There were a total of 17 of this model built in the 1940's-50's The capacity of the bucket ranges from 35cy to 45cy. Hanna Coal Co. now Consol Energy owned 4 of these machines: The Tiger, The Green Hornet, The Groundhog,& The Wasp. These were the predecessors to the giant super strippers that followed in the late 50's to the mid 60's Hanna Coal owned; The Mountaineer,Gem Of Egypt,And the last operating super stripper in the world,The Silver Spade. All of these type of machines are all gone now. The Spade was cut up about 3yrs ago.
I've been contemplating trying to figure out how to build a working scale model of this early giant. I have several photos a parts book and operators manual that I've been studying and still not sure what scale to built to. According to my calculations if I went with 1/16th like my 9W Dragline, the overall height to the boom point will be approximately 90'' tall:eek: Looking over the drawings the biggest hurdle looks to be the 8 crawler units it rides on. I count 64 gears alone in the driveline from the center pin. I may resort to having some castings made on the crawler units since it may take hundreds of hours to just machine the crawler links. This build may never materialize but I'm going to pursue my design work till I'm sure I can pull this one off.

The machine I'll be focusing towards is the one with the solid boom. This was their first; the "A" shovel named ; "The Tiger"
http://wvhistoryonview.org/cgi/i/image/getimage-idx?viewid=004362.JPG;cc=wvcp;entryid=x-004362;view=imagehttp://wvhistoryonview.org/cgi/i/image/getimage-idx?viewid=002160.JPG;cc=wvcp;entryid=x-002160;view=image

http://wvhistoryonview.org/cgi/i/image/getimage-idx?viewid=002161.JPG;cc=wvcp;entryid=x-002161;view=image

[ihbuilder]

you build that , we'll deffinately will need some blades on site :eek:

[Jared]

Wow, that would be something to see!

[D8R]

Steve, if you are already working with the design I would not be surprized to see you starting with the build!
Guess that the boys needs to build bigger trucks if you should load with this beast!
This forum (and all builders) are getting better and better!
Dan

[modelman]

Wow steve-that would make a great model!! I have watched hours of spade videos and I think a model with the "knee action crowd" would work great regardless of the size. I believe it would be easier to operate with the crowd movement slower and smoother than a shovel like mine. Also it looks like the crowd keeps the bucket at a good angle into the face. I have considered building a small shovel with this type of crowd but I doubt it will happen.

[Jared]

FWIW, I was flipping through my Marion book to see what it had to say about the 5561 and I ran across the 4121, an 8-yard loading shovel with knee-action crowd. Says "the only conventional shovel (as opposed to large stripping shovels) equipped with knee-action crowd."

[9W Monighan]

There are so many details to figure out it may take a very long time to build this. I sure hope not as long as my drag since with this machine, I do have a pretty good supply of info to work with and better technology with my drafting program vs. the old programs I used to use. Too bad there aren't any of these shovels existing today to get some detailed pictures and measurements of areas not covered in my parts book. A trip to the coal museum in Cadiz Ohio may clear some of this up. I'm told there are alot of photos of Hanna's operations there. Something I'll be trying this time around I just found out about today is, software that will take my parts book scan and convert it to a file that will work with AutoCad. I need to learn more about 3D drawing like some of you guys use here on the board to design their models to help me visualize what I'm building for fit.
Steve- Your right we will need lots of dozers to work the bottom of the pit cleaning up the missed rocks and cleaning off the coal seam:D

Dan- I my smash a truck when this thing's door opens. I haven't converted the dipper size yet but I'm thinking in the neighborhood of 7.25''x7.25''x7.25''

Tom, Jared- Somebody needs to build a smaller shovel with this Knee Action I saw a Lego model of the Marion 6360 "Captain" shovel on Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSUJyl_uFGE

[dirtpusher9]

Build it Steve. You can do it. Shame your not building a Bucyrus shovel, you could get all the info you need from the Big Brutus, almost the same size machine. It is still intacted in the southeast corner of Kansas.

[doodlebug]

Hey Steve, it's alot nicer looking machine, vs. Bucyrus Erie's 150B with "the doubler"
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/cygnus/oemoh_20111112/#/45
Cheer's, Neil.

[9W Monighan]

Build it Steve. You can do it. Shame your not building a Bucyrus shovel, you could get all the info you need from the Big Brutus, almost the same size machine. It is still intacted in the southeast corner of Kansas.
My son Mike and I have been to Brutus in 2006. That shovel is about twice the size of the 5561 Marion. Really cool place to visit. When we were there we met a guy who's grandfather built the Little Giant shovel in the museum. That machine looks to be about 1/12th scale but a smaller dipper in 1:1 than what I want. Brutus would be easier in the driveline department, It used electric motors in each track and had hydraulic steering.
Here are a couple pictures I took of Little Giant:
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/5232/2415.jpg

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7876/2408k.jpg

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/734/2405i.jpg
Hey Steve, it's alot nicer looking machine, vs. Bucyrus Erie's 150B with "the doubler"
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/cygnus/oemoh_20111112/#/45
Cheer's, Neil.
I have a lot of drawings and info on the 150B with the standard shovel front. This machine is my second choice of a possible build but I know of one somebody has that was built at Bucyrus-Erie.

[doodlebug]

Wow, is that a working model? I see an umbilical cord out the back end of it.
The "Doubler" is a strange way to immitate a hydraulic shovel IMO. Yes I have to consider the time period too! Found this transport story last night, wow, can't immagine walking a steam shovel 190 miles to the job! http://val238.tripod.com/steamenginesinwestwold/id11.html
Cheer's, Neil.

[modelman]

I have put a lot of thought into building a mid-size shovel but it is not possible for me to do the detail work. I can't see well enough to do the detail work and could never gather the info that would be needed. A model with a 30-36" boom is as big as I could do in my shop. But it may be too late for me to start another build-will see. You mentioned a 7'-6" boom-that would be an eye-catcher:eek: The model that don campbell made looks good but it DOESN'T WORK. What a waste! A giant WORKING shovel is what we need. I wish you luck and hope you decide to build this.

[Car5858]

Steve, that looks like a great project.

Here is a link to the scanning software.
http://wintopo.com/

I use the free version a lot, but you have alot of editing to do.

I will be watching for updates.:)

[9W Monighan]

Thanks,Carl. I looked at that one and several others last night. Not sure what's the best.

Neil, Little Giant is a working model. Google "Big Brutus" and read a small article about Little Giant on their website.

[doodlebug]

Thank's Steve, I'll look it up!
Hey Carl, I'm a little slow, what is that software used for?
Cheer's, Neil.

[Car5858]

Converts raster image scans to vector dxf files. Saves a lot of time drawing with Autocad.:)

[Car5858]

Steve, http://www.scan2cad.com/ is about the best on the market right now IMHO. It also has a price tag that goes with it $$$.$$. The benifits are that you have many different scanning options. Will work with an A - E size drawings.

http://www.scan2cad.com/free-trial/ this is the free 14 day trial. There is a learning curve that will use at least 3 full days of your time.

[doodlebug]

Converts raster image scans to vector dxf files. Saves a lot of time drawing with Autocad.:)

Ok, that's something new today. I understand dxf file's via Draft Sight 2D CAD.

Thank's, Neil.

[9W Monighan]

Made some progress this weekend. I tried scanning the large format drawing in two parts on my 8.5x11 scanner but it was hard to join the two scans so I bought a larger scanner and was able to scan the crawler unit whole and with the help of Carl5858, convert it to a drawing file to be able to edit the lines and scale it to my appropriate size. 8 of these will have to be machined. In 1/16th scale they will be 14-1/4'' long.
This is the scan before any modification:
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5315/crawlercd.jpg

Top View:
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/5010/crawlertopview.jpg

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/7653/imagexgu.jpg

[Jared]

Wow, I'm not looking forward to making 74 track pads for my 25B and if I didn't miscount you've got 304!

[9W Monighan]

Wow, I'm not looking forward to making 74 track pads for my 25B and if I didn't miscount you've got 304!

Thanks for reminding me. You counted correctly. This is something I may need to look into about producing them from cast iron. I need to find a foundry that is willing to work with a 1 off deal like this. They will measure about 2.625'' W x 1.125'' L x .5'' thick.

[ihbuilder]

Steve , A guy I bought a vice from in lancaster Knows an Amish guy that will do that type of stuff . He got some nonexistent hendey parts cast from him . I can get his name ans number if you want .

[Car5858]

Nice work Steve, the scans came out great. That will save alot of drawing time.:)

[9W Monighan]

Steve , A guy I bought a vice from in lancaster Knows an Amish guy that will do that type of stuff . He got some nonexistent hendey parts cast from him . I can get his name ans number if you want .

I've heard of the guy you mentioned. Yes, get me his number. I know of some Cat collectors that have had work done by him also.

[9W Monighan]

No progress on this project due to no time at all, but came across this video today that sparked my interest. This video gives a very detailed view of the gearing that makes one of these machine move.
https://youtu.be/N3gJx393fUI

.

[littleiron]

Where did you locate the info and did you run onto anything on the small truck mounted shovels like the 1/2 yard Michigan's or American's. my dad ran one for years I also ran the American some my first year in the working world. Like most young people didn't get any photos as they would be around for ever. Sure would like some info now.:bounce:

[modelman]

That is an interesting video steve. Like you I was watching the drive gears. I tried to follow the drive train but I could not see the gears that were turning the bevel gears that attached to the main shafts. Everything else makes sense except in one close-up of the small gears outside the track frames, 2-of them didn't seem to be meshing. (Wear maybe) or possibly I just couldn't see it that good. I was also amazed in one of the close-ups at how much the bucket twisted from side to side during loading. I guess that is why the stick broke occasionally on these monsters. Nice video, I saved that to one of my favorites.