Reasonable Advice Needed

[george]

Hello,

First I am a Complete Newb to this field. I Can put together a complete kit with All parts and instructions without a problem. So now I want to go out on a limb.

I have a Plastic 1/6 Ultimate Soldier Schwimmwaggen car. That was a German WWII scout car used of course by the German Army. It is able to go in the water with a propeller on the rear. And drive on land. It was not a speed demon, it was the early generation of VW. Enough of the lessons.

I need parts advice. I want to convert this to 4x4 like the real one and have it water proof as well BUT retain the looks of a WWII vehicle. I have done alot or research and this has been done, alot in Europe, parts there different from here.

I need Two axles driven from 1 motor so it will be 4 wheel drive. The front only steers But there is suspension to all 4 wheels. For now the tires are the 1/6 plastic, I can live with that for now. Again keeping the connections small, not bulky and all parts through the lower hull to be water proof. If you google Schwimwaggen, you will see what I am attempting to do.

I NEED, if that`s possible, Cheap plastic housing Axles that are not Bulky, that can be installed with the interior of the car to cover it over. Also for the axle to wheel connections, the slimmer the better for scale looks. Remember this is a WWII car not a rock crawler or speed demon.

ANY sources for parts and pictures, I like pictures, would be GREATLY appreciated. IF I get to the axle drive stage, I will post pictures of my build for you all to look at, once I figure that out as well.

Thanks In advance for your help and not laughing at me on line at least.

George

[Espeefan]

I'd like to help you out, but this is sort of unfamiliar territory for me, and probably most of the other guys on this forum I'd suggest you take a look at Tamiya's TLT-1 axles. Or at least consider them. I'm not sure how they'd scale out for a 1/5 scale model like this, but they are pretty common and have plastic housings. I wouldn't worry about running them in water. Just run the cheap bushings so you won't have bearings rusting up. The gears will be fine with the water, but you might want to tear them down once in a while for maintenance, like greasing. Here's a link to the axles. You'll have to decide if they might work for you. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVBT9&P=7 Not sure if you want solid axles, or if this model is to have independant suspension? If you intended to run the plastic wheels and tires that came with the model, you'll need an adapter hub of some kind to drive the wheels off the axle. Not a huge deal.

Here is a pretty cool build you might enjoy. It's not much what you are after, but maybe you can find something of interest in it. http://www.scale4x4rc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52119 It's on a different forum, that might well be worth your time to check out and ask the same questions you asked here. The crowd is a little more diverse and possibly someone might have good advice.

[george]

Hi Espeefan,

Thanks for the link, I have already looked at that axle But it seems a little bulky. Is there any slim body version out there in plastic as well made to be on working suspension like the real schwimmwagen had? Also my conversion project, 1/6.

Thanks for the info so far.

Keep the tips coming please.

George

[george]

Hello Again,

I tore open the schwimmwagen to see how much room I have inside the 1/6 beasty. From inside wall to wall for both axles, I have 5" max. Between front and back axles, I have 12 1/2" length.

I figure the axles should be shorter, for connections and adapters. The drive shaft, I was thinking of mounting a gear on it and another one on the motor and use a toothed belt to drive the drive belt which would drive both axles to give me 4wd. Both axles would also have working suspension BUT keep it realistic to WWII times. Also this is NOT a speeder or rock crawler. So the handling should reflect that.

I hope that you can point me to some axles and gear that will help me with this. I have looked at Tamiya 1/14, I think, TLT-1 I think it`s too bulky for the confined internal space I will have it in. I need slim, narrow, plastic body axles etc.

Since I am a Newb, I don`t know the proper names of each part OR how they go together, PLEASE expect alot of beginner questions and take a deep breath before answering me.

Any links / pictures would be GREATLY Appeciated. And I have already posted on another site 4x4, Sorry, Can`t ever get too much help.

Thanks Again for All Your help.

George

[Espeefan]

Well George, have you checked out any axles at www.RC4WD.com? They have lots of nice scale axles. Some plastic, some aluminum. I'm not sure what your budget is. Some get expensive, but are really nice.

A belt drive for the transmission is a good idea, but I'm afraid you'd have a hard time getting the gearing right. You will probably not have enough of a reduction and the model will be to fast, with no power. I'd look for a used transmission instead, that had gears. Some of the cheaper ones that come to mind are the Axial brand transmissions, which are used on Axial's rock crawlers. These are cheap, plentiful, and parts are readily available. You could also check on the Axial SCX-10 axles. These are more scale like axles. You might like them.

http://www.axialracing.com/
http://www.rc4wd.com/

Maybe you'd be best off buying a used Axial SCX-10, or one of their other trucks, because the whole drivetrain could be used, including parts of the suspension. Axle width might be the only hold up - if they aren't wide enough. I'm not sure of the specs, but you could probably find that info on their website.

[george]

Hello Again

I just looked at the Axial Axles and I like the shape of one BUT of course, it`s out of stock.

Couple questions, I could not see from their spec`s page. How long is it from end to end ? Also what is the reason why it is a locked axle? Is there a benefit? I know nothing about this feature.

Thanks ALL, Keep the tips coming

George

[Espeefan]

George, I'm not sure on the width of the axle, however if you check the dimensions of the Axial SCX-10, I'm sure the width of the truck is shown there, and although it is not the width of the axle alone, it will be helpful. The track width is measured from the outside edge of one tire, to the outside edge of the other. The specs I found say the truck is 9" (227mm) wide.

By the way, these same axles are used under the Axial Wraith also.

As for the locked differential, it's more of a rock crawler feature. The benefit is the power is equally sent through both tires on the axles, regardless of traction conditions. With an open differential the power likes to take the path of least resistance, so if one tire has no traction at all, that is the tire that will spin. The other tire might have perfect traction, but because the torque likes to take the easy path, you'll be stuck. A locked differential takes care of that. Even if one tire is up in the air, both tires will be driven.

[george]

Hi Espeefan,

Thanks for the axle leason. I`m not really sure what the real schwimmwagen axle would have been, I think because of the time period, WWII, I think the axle was unlocked, "open"?? is that the term?

Also I measured my schwimmwagen, from outside edge of one tire to the other I see 9 1/4" but my schwimm. only has a solid rod / shaft as the axles. So I have something to think about now. As for the axles, can you have an open one then later do something to it to make it locked OR do you buy it like that and live with it?

Thanks Again All.

George

[kenlms]

Hi George,

Have you seen this site http://www.afv-model.com/4711shop/index.php?cat=c54_Axles.html ?

They seem to have a more military vehicle "bent".

As for locked vs. open axles (I'm assuming you mean the differentials), if you intend to drive "on-road" or generally non-slippery surfaces, open is better.
Locked differentials are really for situations where you expect to lift one or two wheels in the air (open diffs will direct all power to the free-spinning wheel).

Ken

[kenlms]

Forgot to mention; crawler guys sometimes convert "open" axle differentials to "locked" differentials by packing silly-putty in the differential gear - a cheap and easy option if you ever decide to go with "locked" diffs at a later date.

[george]

Hi Kenlms

Thanks for the afv link. That is one INCREDIBLE source BUT the prices are in Euros and when converted to Canadian. Would be more than I can afford for this project for now. Also thanks for the info on the locked axles, I was planning on having them open because I am not planning on rock climbing with this vehicle. Like the real ones did, it went from land to river bank then into water and back out again.

Thanks Again for the info. Keep the tips coming. BTW is it possible to take a locked axle, any brand, and unlock/open, whatever the term is, the axle?

George

[WhiteWolf McBride]

George:

Quite a few years ago, I converted a SOTW 1/6 Kubelwagen to RC (2WD only) using an old Traxxas Bandit that I had laying about. It was great, and cheap.

Now, that being said, you need to lay out your conversion parameters. You have already said it needs to be 4x4, and capable of being waterproofed (or able to tolerate water).

First place I'd look would be Radio Shack/Circuit City. You get the vehicle AND controller all in one. Problem is, the controllers are often limited, and crap.

We also need to know what your budget is... for the chassis components, and for the controller.

Whats the track-width, wheel-nut to wheel-nut, and the wheelbase, axle to axle. That will tell us roughly what scale we need to consider.

Now... I know there are a few hobby shops on eBay that sell off car lots. I picked up a trio of the Losi Micro-T's for less than the cost of one new pack, and only had to deal with garbaged battery packs. I also got a load of the Kyosho JGSDF LAV parts, but they might be a tad small for your use (based on the Half-Eight chassis) but DO come with a good control system, and are full 4x4.

Also, can you supply pics of the interior space usable for the 'conversion'?

And lastly... do you wanna do it yourself, or would you consider contracting it out?

Just picking brains here...
WhiteWolf
- used to thinking way outside the box...

[george]

Hey WhiteWolf

Thanks for the message and info. It`s George from Hamilton, Ont., the 1/16 R.C tank guy. I will put together the information you wanted and pics as well, is your email info. the one you sent me privately before good?
Also, I would like to do the work myself.
George

[george]

Hello again

Long time away but finally got some news. I just found a source chassis for my project at a good deal, it`s an RC18T and will be the source of all my suspension and drive parts. When this gets here and I start, I will keep a picture record of the build then when I figure out how to post them here I will.

Please keep up the suggestions, I read as much as I can here for advice.

Thanks Again for All the Tips so far.

George