Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment

[Trucker47]

Hey Everyone,

I haven't been to busy on the forums as I am working full time and just finished doing some night classes for school. So my free time has been limited, and still is as I am building a new engine for my car. :D

Anyways I have noticed quite often that lots of the builders on here; including myself, are always challenged when it comes to making tracked equipment, due to how many track links are required.

And unless you have a CNC mill and lots of free time it is a real hassle to make them all.

Well I may have a solution for us all!

Through the company I work at I have been able to get a connection with A machining company with very reasonable rates, especially so for high quantity runs.

They do most of the machine work for all the custom CNC parts I design for work for the cars that come in.

I was thinking that if there was a great enough need I could; along with some help from you guys, draw up some of the most useful and required track pad designs for all the builds and sell them at a very reasonable price. Although I can only receive a quote from the company once I send them a drawing and required quantity.

So if you guys are interested in this let me know so we can get the ball rolling. I was thinking that there may be 5 different tracks you guys would need and I could have them made by the hundreds.

Unfortunately I don't know off the top of my head how much one pad will cost but once I have one drawing done I will be able to get a quote relatively quick as the company I work with is very quick.

Here is an example of one of the parts I drew in Solidworks and had made for the new Volkswagen's just to show the quality of parts they make:

CAD rendering:

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p398/trucker-47/Render4.jpg

Underside:

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p398/trucker-47/IMG_20121102_175248_zps678bb042.jpg

Top Side:

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p398/trucker-47/IMG_20121102_175239_zpsa2fb8a68.jpg

Thanks! And let know if you would be intrested!

Chris

[Azonic]

I would be very intrested in some metal trackpads, as you may know i have a Vario/Fumotec excavator and there are a few more on here so im pretty sure almost all of them would like metal trackpads.

I could gladly send you the dimentions for the plastic pads i have right now, or even if needed send you a pad if you need it to measure yourself?

This would be the icing on the cake for me and are of course willing to pay a reasonable amount for them, let me know if you need more info!

Great idea!

Here is a pic of the plastic one, im sure this could be used on other excavators as well if you use the same pitch sprocket and idler wheel.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w20/gcrawler/2011-11-06153132.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w20/gcrawler/2011-11-06153114.jpg

[Azonic]

I would prefer tripple grousers but I could stand double grousers as well, to make both would be almost to good! :)

[Trucker47]

Hey Azonic!

I think if you could send some dimensions that would be easiest seeing as you are located in Sweden and I am out In BC Canada. So it might take a while to get here! If you could maybe give some dimensions or hand draw blue prints I'll draw them up and we can from there!

I'm glad you could use this offer! I was just sitting at work thinking, hey why don't I do this? I need some tracks and Im sure everybody else could use some.

Chris

[RCP57]

So this is off topic but... What happened to your wheel loader Chris?

[Trucker47]

Sitting beside me actually haha. I just finished some school courses and got access to the shop at work so I am going to try and get back on it asap! Along with the 100 other things going on hahah. I hope to post an update soon!

Chris

[Azonic]

Hey Azonic!

I think if you could send some dimensions that would be easiest seeing as you are located in Sweden and I am out In BC Canada. So it might take a while to get here! If you could maybe give some dimensions or hand draw blue prints I'll draw them up and we can from there!

I'm glad you could use this offer! I was just sitting at work thinking, hey why don't I do this? I need some tracks and Im sure everybody else could use some.

Chris

Yea its quite a bit between us but a little package by post wouldnt take that long, maybe a week. Any how i will PM you some of the basic dimentions later today.

Like i said i would like to have triple grousers like on the 1:1 machine, i post some pics of how i like them to look.

Also, i dont know if its to complicated/time consuming to machine the track pads in one piece like my plasic ones, or if its easyer to make them separate pad+link and bolt together, what you think?

Here is how i would like them to look.

http://img.tootoo.com/mytootoo/upload/55/557444/product/557444_faab64969be04a9064f020a144a4cdbe.jpg

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00LZpQSPorhRqd/Kobelco-Excavator-Track-Plate-SK200-3-.jpg

[Lil Giants]

A triple bar for excavators & a single bar for dozers would be a good start.

The Vario track is a bit larger in stature to other 14th track models... might be the same size as IHbuilders 385's... a 1st run of a 1000 links would cost what per link?

Have you done any drawings yet?

I think your greatest challenge in all of this is staying under $8/link.

[pugs]

Same principle could be used for aluminum track pads. I work with an aluminum extrusion shop on some parts. A die that size and profile would probably cost me around $2k by the time I got the first 100lbs of material from it. So your talking a triple and single grouser die for $4k. The links I would have to look at closer but may not be that difficult given some creative fixturing. Hardest part would be a couple of the inside corners need to be square.

Anyway, even doing it this way, yes you'd probably be up in the $1k per set of tracks. I'd have to run the numbers to be sure, could be lower but I still have to amoritize the cost of the dies over a few sets. Doing this way width of tracks would be easy to adjust, size changes would mean a whole new die. Then for some wear resistance could hard anodize all the parts (which requires milling them slightly different).

Steel..... I have seen a couple places that do extrude steel shapes, have no idea on what they cost but can imagine its considerably more.

Oh and I forgot all about pins.

[ihbuilder]

thanks Jeff :) yes you need to factor in pins and screws .

[pugs]

And I suppose they would have to be hex head bolts too......

[ihbuilder]

And I suppose they would have to be hex head bolts too......

OH yea :D :p in steel :rolleyes:

[9W Monighan]

What pitch would be of most use for the majority of tracks are we looking for? What would be the the most popular material. Aluminum, Brass, or Steel?

[pugs]

I may have thought of a cheaper way to start them. Probably still out of aluminum but could be 7075 or 6061 material and hard anodized. If you guys can figure out a common pitch (or 2) and let me know some dimensions I could figure out pricing. If it worked out I would be willing to build them as a stock item and add them to my "store" on here.

Steel may be possible this way, but would cost a bit more than alum due to machining time, tool wear, etc

[Lil Giants]

Or to simplify it even more for you, you decide your own pitch & sell drive sprockets with the tracks... better for you than trying to accomendate the various that's already out there.

[scalelover]

Has anyone come up with a print design on these, or what size the final piece would be? I would have no problem pricing out material etc and rates to run these. I'd like to see if I could do a batch price to cover everything needed, instead of a breakdown pricing setup

--Dan

[Trucker47]

Right now I am working with Azonic to create a scale, metal track setup that will be a direct bolt on to Hitachi Zaxis machine and other machines that use that pitch. I have not got a quote from my machine shop but it should not be sky high as I may be ordering in the thousands if there is a need.

Also these will not be a $1 per link type of item as it looks like the majority of people building tracked equipment understand the cost to these pieces of metal art. They are meant to be a fair cost, scale piece of machined metal, either 7075 aluminum for its hardness, or stainless depending on the cost.

I'm not trying to be rude at all but I am not trying to make a profiting business by having injection molds and everything made like CDM mentioned. Just simply an option for people needing tracks. Because chances are if you want to buy some nice tracks you are not converting a Bruder model, you want a beautiful, scale, piece of engineering and pride.

If all goes well I may decide to sell "kits" if you want to call them that, they would include a ilder wheel, sprocket and roller wheels that would most likely only have a spot drill in the center so you can adapt them to your application.

I will post a price per link as soon as I have finalized the details.

Here is a CAD rendering of the design Azonic and myself are working on.

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p398/trucker-47/HQRender_zps91bc8df8.jpg

Any questions lemme know!

Chris

[Trucker47]

with that being said they should not be expensive though as they will be machined in high quantity runs; 300+ each run. I am dealing with my machine shop right now so I should have a price pretty soon! I will post it asap!

Chris :D

[JAMMER]

I might be interested in a set. Ed

[scalelover]

As I don't yet have any completed tracked equipment myself I'm not positive on the wear levels they actually produce to the tracks themselves. I'm noticing that quite a few of you guys seem to be worried about some aluminum being to soft for them, is changing from 6061 to 7075 going to be that much of a gain in the expected life span of the tracks? I know tensile strength is increased pretty well but if its from the edges of the gears digging in I'm not sure how much more it would help?

Only reason I'm asking is because price difference in materials will add up quickly from 6061 to 7075 or even 2024. If 6061 would work fine I have enough loose pieces I could probably make a few full sets for prototype testing

Could you guys fill me in on the life span expectancy as well as some ideas of the actual wear you see on your current tracks.

--Dan

[pugs]

I agree, if doing aluminum 6061 is probably best bet. Depending on cost, I would probably opt for hard anodizing to get some wear resistance at least for the track pads. Not sure how my anodizer would like that many tiny parts if doing the links though.

Now if went carbon steel it should be pretty good for wear on the pads, and pretty easy to black oxide all the pieces for a good look.

If you get your design finalized and want a couple more prices ask Dan and I for quotes.

One thing I notice in the pic you posted of your design so far. I see a thicknees bump out in the links around the pad bolt holes. That will add to machining costs, more so than just making the whole link thicker. Same for what looks like a raised boss around where the pins go through, but it may be e-clips, hard to see for sure.

[Trucker47]

I know from using 7075 that it is pretty wear resistant in some circumstances, it is a harder compound and more rigid but it is terrible for being corrosion resistant, where as 6061 is softer but is very corrosion resistant and will not oxidize as fast as 7075.

I can't really help you with the life span but I think it all really depends on many different variables from what i'v learned; how tight your tolerances are with the parts, what type of material you will be running in, the weight of your machine, how much you use it, how hard you run it. Once you put hat all into account you could figure out what material to use.

Personally from what i've researched 7075 will be great once it is anodized for many different machine weights, 6061 is also a good material, doesn't need to be coated but with the thin pieces it could bend easier and create binding which will drastically decrease the life span. Steel would be good but it wears the tooling required to make it much more than aluminum, it rusts the quickest, it may be strong but it is heavy so it will increase the wear on itself.

That's what i've learned so far, out of everything titanium would be the best but I dont have deep pockets hahaha

Hope this helps,
Chris

[Trucker47]

Thanks for the pugs, got it all fixed up and simplified now, I'll post what should be the final design tonight if I get it all done and I hope to have my quote back within 4 days :D

Chris

[scalelover]

I assumed the use variables would play a big role, but weight and side load etc i don't think would be as much an issue as in a 1:1, I'd think the areas of constant contact would wear at a lot faster rate than being worried about bending an outer end or even fatigue at the pin locations? Just due to the constant flexing and motion of it going around the rollers??

IMO 7075 would def. wear slower as you mentioned but it could cause quicker wear on other components where as the 6061 wouldn't. The corrosion issue is more what I was thinking would be an issue knowing the tracks will be used in dirt mud water etc. The hard coating should help with this and with any fatigue issues on the areas constantly rubbing each other.

--Dan

[Trucker47]

Yea good point, I geuss it will just matter once model start to reach 85+lbs.

If I get these made of 7075 we'll just have to see how they hold up!

Chris

[fhhhstix]

OK the ref has stepped in and cleaned this mess up.:rolleyes:

Now if you have nothing positive to add to this discussion keep it to your self.:cool:

I think we are all here to help get ideas and see if this is a feasible option with a price reflecting the quality of material and craftsmanship.


Play nice.
Travis

[9W Monighan]

I would say you would definitely need to hard coat the links but that adds alot of labor charges when they have to clamp each link in a inconspicuous area because the anodizing and black dye won't take in that area.
As soon as grit gets between the links the aluminum will gall up.
If I get a chance, I am going to look into costs for the pads in aluminum and brass.

[scalelover]

OK the ref has stepped in and cleaned this mess up.:rolleyes:

Now if you have nothing positive to add to this discussion keep it to your self.:cool:

I think we are all here to help get ideas and see if this is a feasible option with a price reflecting the quality of material and craftsmanship.


Play nice.
Travis


Where is the "like" button.....

--Dan

[scalelover]

I would say you would definitely need to hard coat the links but that adds alot of labor charges when they have to clamp each link in a inconspicuous area because the anodizing and black dye won't take in that area.
As soon as grit gets between the links the aluminum will gall up.
If I get a chance, I am going to look into costs for the pads in aluminum and brass.

I've got a great anodizer who does a lot of different parts for me from small to large. The black hard coat is one that I already do a lot of and he will do pricing by either piece work and batch pricing for me.

Depending on the size of the pin opening I already have rack fixtures setup to use 4 and 6mm rod, but have the ability to add smaller hanging rod on them. So he could hold them right through the pin holes??

If no one can get a decent price on it I'd be more than happy to see what he'd do for us

--Dan

[Trucker47]

I`ll let you know if I can get these anodized for a fair price or not, if not it would be awesome if he could anodize them.

Because it sure looks sweet, this is what the final design will be, we are 99.9% done the design, just double checking all the dimensions so that they fit perfectly.

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p398/trucker-47/FinalRendering_zps39ebd19c.jpg

and a view of them anodized:

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p398/trucker-47/renderblackanodize_zps216b4697.jpg

I can't wait to make some of these!!

Chris

[RCP57]

Nice!:eek: I need to win the lotto cause my Volvo would look sweet with a pair of kicks like that!

[dabears]

I`ll let you know if I can get these anodized for a fair price or not, if not it would be awesome if he could anodize them.

Because it sure looks sweet, this is what the final design will be, we are 99.9% done the design, just double checking all the dimensions so that they fit perfectly.

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p398/trucker-47/FinalRendering_zps39ebd19c.jpg

and a view of them anodized:

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p398/trucker-47/renderblackanodize_zps216b4697.jpg

I can't wait to make some of these!!

Chris

Those look nice! Will be be around the same price as the scale art ones? They look pretty close. I think they look great!!
I deff like the idea of the black anodized pads really cool idea!

[Lil Giants]

What's the height of the grouser bars?

A nagging problem I have with the tracks binding on my Vario is the amount of moist dirt that gets packed between adjoining pads... been thinking of milling down the bars or even putting a slight taper on the outer edges of each grouser bar so the dirt might squeeze out.

Does this makes sense to you or do I need a picture to explain it?

Currently I have a 2 bar pad which is great for climbing & staying planted with hard digging, the downside however is trying to turn, sometimes it will skip a track off.

[Trucker47]

the actually height of just the tread bar (i think thats what the grouser bar is haha), is 3.5mm

Do you mean where the two pads overlap one and other?

Chris

[Lil Giants]

No, the space between the tread bars of two seperate pads.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/protrker/Jan%2013/008_zpse37884e8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/protrker/Jan%2013/007_zps4b195788.jpg

[Trucker47]

Ahhh okay, these tracks have a 1.50mm gap when they are flat so I'm not to sure how that will work.

I wonder how to stop it from clogging?

Chris

[Lil Giants]

I've been thinking/hoping a tapered edge might squeeze the dirt out as the pads come together on the horizontal. :confused:

[Trucker47]

hmmm that might work pretty good. especially if it doesn't compact cause it would always be getting compressed and then fall out. Ill see if I can add something into the drawings.

thanks for the tip

Chris

[pugs]

Shouldn't all the grouser bars be tapered a bit, I think that's how the real ones are.

[catmack]

I was waiting until I had enough posts (not sure if I am even allowed to post this) and if I need to move or delete it, let me know.
I am really into fine detail as most of you are so, whatever I do will have as much of it as I can put in it. That being said, I thought I should jump in here and put in my 2 cents since I already have an enormous amount of time invested in it. Business is slow and I am putting the shop to good use. IH builder, you are correct about extrusions and punching the holes and such as I am making the (punch) dies for the 1/14th scale size pads for a 80,000lb class dozer/excavator in the shop now. The following samples are what the end product will look like cut from the stock minus all additional processing. I cut these out on my wire machine so, the finish is nice but, the extrusion finish will be more of a mill finish like any other extrusion, once it is in the dirt for a while it won't look like an extrusion anyway. This will be run in 6063T5 not 7075 because extruder cannot run it and I don't think there are not too many that have the capability here in the states that can with this size shape. I really don't think it would be worth the extra cost to do it either??. The complete unit in black, is the scale version rendered on a 3D printer, it is very accurate considering the rough finish. The bolts are 0-80 and fit right into the holes perfectly. The links are going to be of both steel and aluminum base if possible, will let you know how that goes shortly, the file is out for feasibility and quote. These pads will be bolted with 0-80 or 1.5mm scale bolts specifically for this purpose. I do have pricing for the pads in aluminum, not sure if I am allowed to post here if at all. Steel pads are also going to be an option, something I would like to discuss along with several other issues with everyone at the right time. I am going to stop blabbing until I know what, where and if I can keep talking. I hope this input is helpful. For some reason I can't upload the pics, I will keep trying. I will also try posting the pics at the track topic I posted a while ago.

[catmack]

I've been thinking/hoping a tapered edge might squeeze the dirt out as the pads come together on the horizontal. :confused:

Are those on the vario not tapered?, every pad I've seen is well radiused and tapered. If I ever get my pic's uploaded, you will see what I have done with mine. What is the track pitch on that machine?

[ihbuilder]

catmack your more then welcome . best way to load pics is through an off site photo account like photobucket .

I think if we get enough of us going on this we can produce a bunch of sizes .

[catmack]

I was able to post at my other post, see attached link. IH, I have 12 sizes layed out with a size common that will also cross-scale. I started with my 1/8th then 1/10, 1/12 and 1/14. The samples you see, will each have four different pitches all together. In order to make this hobby more affordable and accessible to more people, a standard will have to be set and I am willing to take on that roll if it allows more people to enjoy it and is needed. I hope I am not doing this link wrong.

http://rctruckandconstruction.com/showthread.php?t=6016

[Trucker47]

Shouldn't all the grouser bars be tapered a bit, I think that's how the real ones are.

I'm going off this picture and some pictures of the vario tracks and it looks like they have a very slight taper. other than the tailing face of the last grouser has a greater taper. Also if I was to taper them it would really increase my machining cost as they would either need to be machined on a 4 axis machine with a tilting head of just have multiple passes using a ball nose which would take much for time than a few passes with just a 90deg endmill. And im sure you know, time is money! :cool:

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p398/trucker-47/Cat_325BL_2JR2430_7_zps263bb083.jpg

I may make another grouser pad just like this with more some details and see what machining cost will be.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w20/gcrawler/480666252_8071lip2_zpsa9a4f672.jpg

I got en e-mail form my machine shop today and they said they are just wrapping up the quote and should have it within a day or two. I may send them another grouser pad that is a little more scale and complicated to see how much it will cost.


But the good thing is, is that if this pitch that I am currently using is what you guys can use then I can make multiple different grouser pads that will bolt onto the link with just unbolting the old one and bolt the new one back into place making this a very universal system!

Chris

[dirtpusher9]

Chris, that looks really good. Are you going to do a dozer pad as well?

[catmack]

I'm going off this picture and some pictures of the vario tracks and it looks like they have a very slight taper. other than the tailing face of the last grouser has a greater taper. Also if I was to taper them it would really increase my machining cost as they would either need to be machined on a 4 axis machine with a tilting head of just have multiple passes using a ball nose which would take much for time than a few passes with just a 90deg endmill. And im sure you know, time is money! :cool:

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p398/trucker-47/Cat_325BL_2JR2430_7_zps263bb083.jpg

I may make another grouser pad just like this with more some details and see what machining cost will be.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w20/gcrawler/480666252_8071lip2_zpsa9a4f672.jpg

I got en e-mail form my machine shop today and they said they are just wrapping up the quote and should have it within a day or two. I may send them another grouser pad that is a little more scale and complicated to see how much it will cost.


But the good thing is, is that if this pitch that I am currently using is what you guys can use then I can make multiple different grouser pads that will bolt onto the link with just unbolting the old one and bolt the new one back into place making this a very universal system!

Chris

Chris,

I agree, making a unit as universal as possible is one of the most important things to keep in mind. What kind of steel did you have in mind? In the photo, what size machine is that? Colin

[Trucker47]

Chris, that looks really good. Are you going to do a dozer pad as well?

Thats the plan! If it all works out my plan is to make tracks exactly as people would want as long as somebody will buy them cause even though I'm not trying to make a business out of it I don't want to have my money tied up in some track pieces just sitting here because nobody needed them.

catmack,

Thats exactly what I was thinking, if I had a set of links that could be used with any track pad you want then it would make things much more simple.

I would like to use stainless :D but its not cheap! so probably will be going with just a standard carbon steel that the machine shop would have, not too sure on the exact compound.

I'm not too sure on the size of the machine in the picture, it was just a picture Azonic sent me to use as a reference

Chris

[sparkycuda]

A question about material sticking to the pads. Would spraying the pads with something like Pam, the non-stick cooking spray or some silcon-based spray, reduce the problem?

Ken

[tracksntreadslou]

Its good to see someone take the bull by the horns with the track situation .I have a set of nylon ones on my TD 25 and can see some wear with the short amount of use on mine and the scale appearance could use a bit of work as well...I like the Idea of the two peice track link or could even make it a 3 peice with the bolts and pins holding the two links together .Probably simplify some of the machining ..Your Cad/cam work is very good ..Hopfully one day i can master that as well ..which one are you using and are you pretty happy with it ?

[catmack]

Its good to see someone take the bull by the horns with the track situation .I have a set of nylon ones on my TD 25 and can see some wear with the short amount of use on mine and the scale appearance could use a bit of work as well...I like the Idea of the two peice track link or could even make it a 3 peice with the bolts and pins holding the two links together .Probably simplify some of the machining ..Your Cad/cam work is very good ..Hopfully one day i can master that as well ..which one are you using and are you pretty happy with it ?

What is the pitch?, number of pads, width etc.?, are the links steel?

When you say you have noticed wear in a short time, what is short 2 hours, 10 hours, 40??...

[catmack]

After looking at my posts here, I feel like I broke the rules. Chris, I apologize for dumping my thoughts on your thread. I should have commented on my thread. If the mod or admin. could move my comments or delete them, what ever you see fit, I would be greatful. This is not how I envisioned contibuting to the hobby?...again, I am sorry if I offended anyone here. Colin

[Trucker47]

sparkycuda - I had thought about that as well, but I would think that It would be taken off in a matter or seconds in the dirt. I also thought you could apply a non-stick teflon coating but that would not look to scale.

tracksntreadslou - Thanks you! I felt it was the best way to get things done sooner than later as In September I will begin full time school and no time to help out by doing this.

Catmack - No worries, no harm was done and you apologized so it is all good!

Update! :D

Have a little update that could be seen good or bad depending on how you see it. I got a quote back from a machine shop to have 225x 3-piece track links made, all CNC machined from an ISO 9001:2000, ISO 9001:2008, QS:-9000, ISO 14001:2004 certified machine shop ,made from 7075 Aluminum with a black hard anodizing. For $14.20 USD, which is a little much so I am going to work with them to reduce the cost and which will require switching to 6061-T6 Aluminum. If this happens to be the best path to be taken I will beef up the current design to withstand years of abuse.

Also just wanted to ask who would really be intrested in purchasing some tracks? I would need a pretty strong guarantee as the machine shop likes to do higher quantity orders and with a higher quantity the price per unit will drop. I can post dimensions if people would like. They are basically a direct bolt on setup for Vario machines and whatever other use you want!

I cannot guarantee any price right now as Im still working hard to make it affordable for everyone to have nice CNC metal tracks!! :cool:

Please let me know so if you would like some so I can get an updated quote for everyone!

Thanks everyone,

Chris


*Edit - Also just want to let everyone know that if many people decide they would like some I would prefer to do large orders every so often rather than small orders of the same item constantly, as It will save time, and most importantly money, as I can guarantee if you come to me later asking for say 75 track pads I will not be able to give you a good bulk price due to the machine shop prices, as I have to at minimum cover my costs.

[Lil Giants]

Did Kalle tell you how many links in the Vario? (I don't want to crawl around in the dirt to count for myself, if at all possible :p).

Depends greatly on the final price... if you can't get even close to cutting that 1st quote in half, it's not worth it to me just to have metal tracks for the sake of a scale appearance. :rolleyes:

[Trucker47]

I think he said 55 per side, don't quote me on that :P

Yea thats exactly what I am thinking, I revised the parts to simplify the machining process so we will see how that goes. I want to keep them as scale as possible without killing everybody's bank!

I will let you know how it goes!

Chris

[Lil Giants]

I was guesstimating 60 per side, so a bit less is better yet. :D

Thanx man for your research on this, hopefully something positive can come from your efforts of it. ;)

[Trucker47]

ill see what i can do!

No problem, i just hope it all works out. or else i guess it was all for nothing.. Lol

Chris

[catmack]

Chris, your efforts are noble and of good intent. This is what it takes to make progress and I think this is what this hobby needs.

[Lil Giants]

or else i guess it was all for nothing.. Lol

Chris

It certainly won't be all for nothing if it doesn't come to fruition, at the very least it'll be a good learning curve for you in terms of a feasibility study for your chosen profession & as well as the rest of us who contemplate other what if scenerios. ;)

[Trucker47]

Looks like I may be able to get them made for about 9usd. But i need to order 700 track sections. I'll post all the details tonight when I'm home from work

[Trucker47]

Okay so here's what seems to be the solution and current state of this "project" if you want to call it that.


Good News

The machine shop can have a whole link made; grouser bar, two link, connecting pin for $8USD. But I would need to charge probably around (not 100% yet) 8.50-$9USD each link to cover my the shipping cost, bolts and C clips.

Bad news, kind of

To get this price per piece we need to have a total order of 700 links or more. It sounds like I have about 330 links, Half way there, woo hoo!

These, like mentioned before are a direct fitment to the vario equipment.

Also the material list:

grouser pad - 7075 Aluminum
track links - 6061-T6 Aluminum
Connecting pin - Carbon steel

This looks like it will be the final design. I had to change the links a little bit to reduce cost but I tried to keep the grouser as scale as possible.

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p398/trucker-47/000001_zps0cfa8429.jpg

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p398/trucker-47/000002_zps57931f13.jpg

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p398/trucker-47/000003_zps36e85e50.jpg


Any questions let me know so I can get this going asap!!

And if your intrested or know anybody who would be intrested send them my way as it looks like I wont have these made very often with the larger quantity required.

Chris

[Madda]

Could you put a drawing where I could see the dimensions for reference?

[Trucker47]

Madda - oops forgot to post that! Ill post some blue prints asap!

Also wanted to mention that all pieces come in a Black hard anodizing :D no extra cost!

Chris

[Azonic]

I dont know if its just the rendering/shadows but the grousers look a bit too high or to thick?

Very nice that they are anodized black for the same price! :)

Im in! :)

[Azonic]

These grousers look more slim and seem to have thinner grousers and not so thick as the last rendering...

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p398/trucker-47/FinalRendering_zps39ebd19c.jpg

[Kingcam2]

If I had a Rc construction toy that needed tracks then I would be in but I have no need at the moment.

[catmack]

Chris, the price seems pretty reasonable, they look good, it's certainly an option for some of the people here.

[JAMMER]

Chris do you realize that there are 2 inside dimensions for the tracks? On the Vario excavator the old ones or original took a single row sprocket and the revised ones have a double row sprocket. I am not sure but the tracks might be a little bit wider. Ed

[Lil Giants]

The old ones had a wide inside too. I still have the 2 bar pad on mine. I added a washer to either side of the sprocket to fill the gap.

The older set & newer set come from the same manufacturer.

http://www.modellbaudiepold.de/2_steg_kettenglied.html

[Trucker47]

Kingcam2 - Okay, maybe sometime in the future :)

catmack - Thanks!

Jammer - Okay ill talk to azonic and figure out which these are designed to fit on.

Lil Giants - how wide is the inside dimension on the wide track?

Chris

[JAMMER]

Chris I have both tracks and the 2 different double row sprockets one from Vario and one I bought somewhere else to fit the old chain. I will try and mike them up by the weekend.. The old chain links are narrower inside were the sprockets ride on the back side of the link than the new ones that is why I have 2 different sprockets. The newer chain is wider inside than the old one.

[Lil Giants]

You are right Ed, I got a reply from Frank, Vario's new triple bar tracks come from their own self made molds and it's a different pitch too.. he didn't say what the difference was.

If Kalle was specing from the old double bar tracks, then you'll need the old double sprocket you sourced from France.

[JAMMER]

OK here we go I went out in the garage an shaking from the cold 27 degrees no heat could not light my heater and got these measurements shaking and still shaking in the house. Old sprocket outside measurement .323 old chain inside measurement .340 new sprocket .609 outside measurement new chain .489 inside measurement both chain measurements are taken from the inside of the chain were the sprocket rider. Joe no I did not get the narrow sprockets from France I got both of them here in the states for $ 75 for the pair I believe if you remember I sent you an email about them. I hope this helps to answers a few questions. Ed

[Azonic]

I talked to Frank and he said he will be converting his 470 to the new cast tracks with new sprocket, rollers and idler, he was going to get back to me when he has done that to see how it goes.

I think the 490 will be a nice machine, but **** i want to see a Volvo made! :)

[JAMMER]

It sounds like that 490 will be a hole new design and smaller than the ones we have.Ed

[Trucker47]

Sorry for the lack of response but I am very busy right now working OT and trying to do tons of other stuff in my personal life.

Anyways it sounds like we wont be able to meet the 700 piece quota and it looks like we have only 450 needed. :o

So ill see what the machine shop says but ill warn you it may be a bust.... :(

Chris

[olason]

Are you still looking at having this go forward, or has this completely died?

I am new to the building process, and to the site. I will update my profile when I am not at work.

Basically, grew up on a farm where we had a 1955 d8 most my life, and just now have been getting a pull scraper, excavator, and grader on the farm. I just moved away from home though for work as an engineer since finishing school.

I think it would be fun to build some models as my great uncle used to do it.

thanks,

kyle

[thebigo]

My tracks on my 4200 xl are carbon 4 steel, if that helps any, I would like to know as well what the best metal would be for tracks. A lot of the euro Models have either brass or aluminium tracks? Not sure what grade of aluminuim though?

[Tommydude88]

My tracks on my 4200 xl are carbon 4 steel, if that helps any, I would like to know as well what the best metal would be for tracks. A lot of the euro Models have either brass or aluminium tracks? Not sure what grade of aluminuim though?

hi have got the 4200 xl my self and am a earthmoving business owner operator I take great pride in excavators and when it comes to scale models the 4200xl is pretty close but it needs a few mods, the steel tracks are great you want to try to keep the weight to the ground, alloy tracks are prob gona be a lot lighter therefor you will not get the traction when digging, I have also replaced the slew motor to a 60rpm motor rather than a 30rpm the digger originally did about 5rpm slewing now does 10rpm where as a 30ton excavator does about 12rpm. so the scaling is closer but you do lose out on a bit of slew power but you can move a **** of a lot more dirt when u slew faster. as far as the tracks go I think the 4200xl needs track chains with holes in the sides and the grousers need the 2 holes in the top because just not enough dirt escapes and it locks up the tracks and you do in the final drive motors all the time, I think ive gone through 4 motors already.

[Tommydude88]

These grousers look more slim and seem to have thinner grousers and not so thick as the last rendering...

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p398/trucker-47/FinalRendering_zps39ebd19c.jpg

love your work with the 3D cad drawings not sure if u started to mill these yet but if you havn't the idlers need to be a lot smaller and maybe the grousers a little wider if you want I can give you the dimensions of my digger for reference

[Rimrock]

hi have got the 4200 xl my self and am a earthmoving business owner operator I take great pride in excavators and when it comes to scale models the 4200xl is pretty close but it needs a few mods, the steel tracks are great you want to try to keep the weight to the ground, alloy tracks are prob gona be a lot lighter therefor you will not get the traction when digging, I have also replaced the slew motor to a 60rpm motor rather than a 30rpm the digger originally did about 5rpm slewing now does 10rpm where as a 30ton excavator does about 12rpm. so the scaling is closer but you do lose out on a bit of slew power but you can move a **** of a lot more dirt when u slew faster. as far as the tracks go I think the 4200xl needs track chains with holes in the sides and the grousers need the 2 holes in the top because just not enough dirt escapes and it locks up the tracks and you do in the final drive motors all the time, I think ive gone through 4 motors already.

This is an old thread and I guess the track project was put on the shelf. Anyway these days scratch builders have several relative low priced mass-produced track pads of around 2 inch wide to choose from, both from Germany and Asia, plastic, steel, Alu-zink castings, so hardly no point in putting down effort in fabricate it by oneself. Unless one needs everything 100% through to scale...Naturally in the 1:1 world the dimensions are different for a 30 tonn and a 60 tonn machine, even though track pads can be the same width.
The 4200xl is a quite basic machine, where one has kept the level of detailing on a minimum to keep cost down. I think they just want to keep it this way, as a cheap 'starter machine'. They actually haven't any real competition in this price range, so they don't care too much about developing the machine. There should have been added a spring on the idler in order for the tracks not to jam that often, and track engines are under-powered. But hey, one can't expect the same as from machines costing 3 times more.

[Tommydude88]

yea I ah come up with an easy fix for the idle/spring problem, was going through a box of springs I had and found I had 4 nice small high tension springs that fit perfectly inside the slide for the idler I put 2 either side and put the idler back in and yea no dramas now works absolutely sweet.