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-   -   Unit Cable Hoe (https://www.rctruckandconstruction.com/showthread.php?t=1310)

Stuff 02-01-2011 12:26 AM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
that turned out pretty good!

Dreamweaver 02-01-2011 03:37 AM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Well hey Scott don't keep these aluminum brazing tricks to your self now...:eek::eek:

What sticks, any flux needed, ect, ect, ect.....

-Mike

SmallHaul 02-01-2011 09:26 AM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuff (Post 17890)
that turned out pretty good!
Thanks Dean

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamweaver (Post 17900)
Well hey Scott don't keep these aluminum brazing tricks to your self now...:eek::eek:

What sticks, any flux needed, ect, ect, ect.....

-Mike
I bought the rods at harbor freight and they are called Alumarod. Clean the aluminum with a wire brush and heat the aluminum up to over 750 degress and touch the rod to the hot aluminum and it flows on just like solder on a brass.

There are a couple of negatives though that I experienced when soldering aluminum. The Alumarod flows almost to thin and it flows down hill easily and pools. Also if you are brazing a very small item and you need to attach multiple pieces, every single piece must be secured to the main object until the heat dissipates from the entire object or it will fall apart. If I want to solder teeth on the front of the the bucket now I have to clamp the whole assembly so it doesn't fall apart or shift while heating it up. Now that I know this I would use metal pins to assemble the entire bucket and just solder the whole thing in one shot.
It was funny...the first time I used the rod I had the bucket clamped perfectly and had all of the joints soldered very cleanly and I went to flip the whole thing over to solder the bottom and when I picked it up the whole thing fell completely apart! DOH!!!! now I have a big mess! I had to clean up all the contact areas again and start over. So, the next time I soldered everything from the top and let it cool down and then flipped it over and heated it back up again to solder the bottom.

I was impressed with how well it works though. I would like to have a rectangular stick (the long beam the bucket attaches to) on the hoe and I might use the Alumarod to solder two U channel pieces together to make it.

Dreamweaver 02-01-2011 10:16 AM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallHaul (Post 17924)
Thanks Dean



I bought the rods at harbor freight and they are called Alumarod. Clean the aluminum with a wire brush and heat the aluminum up to over 750 degress and touch the rod to the hot aluminum and it flows on just like solder on a brass.

There are a couple of negatives though that I experienced when soldering aluminum. The Alumarod flows almost to thin and it flows down hill easily and pools. Also if you are brazing a very small item and you need to attach multiple pieces, every single piece must be secured to the main object until the heat dissipates from the entire object or it will fall apart. If I want to solder teeth on the front of the the bucket now I have to clamp the whole assembly so it doesn't fall apart or shift while heating it up. Now that I know this I would use metal pins to assemble the entire bucket and just solder the whole thing in one shot.
It was funny...the first time I used the rod I had the bucket clamped perfectly and had all of the joints soldered very cleanly and I went to flip the whole thing over to solder the bottom and when I picked it up the whole thing fell completely apart! DOH!!!! now I have a big mess! I had to clean up all the contact areas again and start over. So, the next time I soldered everything from the top and let it cool down and then flipped it over and heated it back up again to solder the bottom.

I was impressed with how well it works though. I would like to have a rectangular stick (the long beam the bucket attaches to) on the hoe and I might use the Alumarod to solder two U channel pieces together to make it.

Cool thanks Scott.

Stuff 02-01-2011 11:06 AM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
wow that does sound tricky! what did you use for the heat? propane torch or go to oxy/acc torch?

RCTech9 02-01-2011 12:51 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Bucket looks good.

SmallHaul 02-01-2011 02:35 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuff (Post 17934)
wow that does sound tricky! what did you use for the heat? propane torch or go to oxy/acc torch?
A little map gas bottle with a hose & torch head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCTech9 (Post 17944)
Bucket looks good.
Thanks.

I used some scrap aluminum that I had laying around to jury rig a stick & boom to figure out the best length and pivot locations. Next I need to add the pulley at the top of the stick and the pulley down by the bucket because pulley the cable 1/1 is a little too fast and having twice the power will be nice. I have the servo rate turned down so that it doesn't move too fast setup directly... I'll probably use these dimensions on the final boom. It digs ok with this sloppy setup so, with teeth on the bucket and a bigger mouth opening (the stick is in the way on the jury rigged setup) it should dig very well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXdtQ9FA-Xs

Stuff 02-01-2011 02:57 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
it looked to be doing okay as it was in the video lol. This is gonna be a heck of a project of yours!

the boom line, is it just one piece from the lower boom to the servo then back to the top of the boom?

RCTech9 02-01-2011 03:04 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Nice video!!! Looking good!!!

JAMMER 02-01-2011 03:42 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Scott you got it working real good and when you get the teeth on it will be working better because the dirt will stay in the bucket a lot longer and you will reach the truck before any dirt comes out. Ed:)

D8R 02-01-2011 04:20 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Impressed! nice using servos for power and they are cheap, 11.70.
Did buy servos 2 weeks ago, thought they where cheap, Hitec HS-225MG at $32 each (at least cheap here in Sweden). Got to try to make a small servo powered model some day!
Saw that your servo source had servos with continuos rotation at 14 bucks, anyone tested those?
Dan

SmallHaul 02-01-2011 04:36 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuff (Post 17949)
it looked to be doing okay as it was in the video lol. This is gonna be a heck of a project of yours!


the boom line, is it just one piece from the lower boom to the servo then back to the top of the boom?

It works ok but, it still needs some tweaking.

No, there are two drums (servo driven) one for the top line (called a hoist line) and one for the bottom line (called a crowd line) to the bucket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCTech9 (Post 17951)
Nice video!!! Looking good!!!
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMMER (Post 17953)
Scott you got it working real good and when you get the teeth on it will be working better because the dirt will stay in the bucket a lot longer and you will reach the truck before any dirt comes out. Ed:)
Thanks Ed! Agreed..:)

Quote:
Originally Posted by D8R (Post 17954)
Impressed! nice using servos for power and they are cheap, 11.70.
Did buy servos 2 weeks ago, thought they where cheap, Hitec HS-225MG at $32 each (at least cheap here in Sweden). Got to try to make a small servo powered model some day!
Saw that your servo source had servos with continuos rotation at 14 bucks, anyone tested those?
Dan
Thanks Dan. The servos that are in this crane are HD-9150MG's that were about $40 a piece but, the ones I am using for the final version of the cable hoe have the same specs.

SmallHaul 02-01-2011 06:42 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
The pulleys are now added and they made a big difference in how the boom rises while digging. Now I need to figure out the second tower by the cab and how that is setup because I think that will help a lot when you reach the bucket all the way out and down.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ulleysetup.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...lleysetup2.jpg

9W Monighan 02-01-2011 07:53 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Scott, I'll get you some images from a B-E book so you can get the geometry correct. That thing is working nice. Looks like the bucket will have to be cured more seeing the dirt falling out too soon. I have some of the small machines: 10,15,20,22,25B parts books to look at.

SmallHaul 02-01-2011 08:09 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9W Monighan (Post 17982)
Scott, I'll get you some images from a B-E book so you can get the geometry correct. That thing is working nice. Looks like the bucket will have to be cured more seeing the dirt falling out too soon. I have some of the small machines: 10,15,20,22,25B parts books to look at.
Steve, I think the straight angle will be fine after the teeth are on there. Do you have any good pics or documentation of the pulley tower by the cab on a 22B Hoe? That is the part I can't figure out how that is set up. It is just a single loop of steel with pulleys on top so, the cable setup must keep the tower in position?:confused:

SmallHaul 02-01-2011 08:12 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Here it is loading the Mack with the new pulley setup. It lifts the load much better with the pulleys setup like the 1:1 unit.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syd2XaANbuU

RCTech9 02-01-2011 09:27 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Yet another nice video!!! I think you should just paint the Boom/stick and call that part done L0L.

steamer 02-01-2011 09:38 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Your a pro at these conversions. I tried Albert's Cat skid steer on the weekend and it is a thing of beauty. What next, do you have up your sleeve.
Rob

SmallHaul 02-01-2011 09:49 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCTech9 (Post 17997)
Yet another nice video!!! I think you should just paint the Boom/stick and call that part done L0L.
Thanks! I gotta make a nicer boom and stick though.:D

Quote:
Originally Posted by steamer (Post 18003)
Your a pro at these conversions. I tried Albert's Cat skid steer on the weekend and it is a thing of beauty. What next, do you have up your sleeve.
Rob
Thank you very much Rob. I am happy to hear you enjoyed the delta loader! I actually don't have any future projects in the works.

Jared 02-01-2011 11:28 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallHaul (Post 17984)
It is just a single loop of steel with pulleys on top so, the cable setup must keep the tower in position?:confused:
That's called the jack boom. The boom hoist holds it from flopping forward and the weight of the boom/stick keeps it from flopping backward. The boom hoist has about a four-part line. Then when you're digging deeper you lean it forward a little and when you're digging shallower you lean it back a little as needed. i think there are usually three or four sheaves on it. Two on the outside for the boom hoist and one in the middle between the uprights if using a two part line to the top of the stick or two in the middle if using a three-part line. I would recommend finding an old copy of "Moving the Earth". Among other things, there are good explanations of revolving shovels and the various attachments.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MOVING-EARTH-WOR...item5adc732dc6
This is close to the one my dad has, which I think is a '60's vintage. I don't know if the later editions have as much cable machine stuff. It ain't cheap but it's worth it! Every kind of earthmoving machine is covered.

Looking good!. I know this is more of a proof-of-concept thing so maybe you've already considered this, but splitting the end of the stick into a "Y" and attaching each leg of the Y to the bucket would help the bucket fill rather than dirt piling up against the end of the stick.

Jared 02-02-2011 12:21 AM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Here's a reeving diagram that's not very good. It may raise more questions than it answers.

http://www.tpub.com/content/construc...201-120049.htm

http://www.tpub.com/content/construc...201-120050.htm

Actually the picture of the 1:1 in the very first post isn't too bad for showing how it's done- if you know what you're looking at :D

Lil Giants 02-02-2011 03:40 AM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Very fluent motion & smooth operating skill makes it exciting to watch Scott. Well done!

And great tutorial on aluminum welding. Is mapp gas hotter or colder than acetylene? Is it better to use mapp gas or is it just more convenient?

SmallHaul 02-02-2011 09:49 AM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Jared, Thank You so much far all the info! I think I understand all of the cabling now after looking at the first diagram.

http://www.tpub.com/content/construc...1-120049im.jpg

The only problem is the routing of the cables are compounded 2 times which would reduce the drum speed twice and that would slow everything down too much. In my second video loading the Mack truck with the pulleys added the cables are compounded once (cutting the speed in half) and the digging speed is just right. So, I'll just have to setup the jack boom a little differently on the model.

Joe, thank you very much.

Map gas burns a lot hotter than butane or propane and when brazing aluminum it sucks the heat up real bad as you can imagine. Even using Map gas it took a while to heat the hoe bucket up enough to flow the alumarod.

9W Monighan 02-02-2011 10:28 AM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Scott I'll be sending you an email with several pages from a 22RB operator book. And several photos from a 10B 14B 15B parts books. I need your email.

SmallHaul 02-02-2011 11:28 AM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Steve, that would be great. PM sent.

SmallHaul 02-02-2011 01:11 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Steve, the pics you sent me look great. Thank You.

I was going to start making a nice looking boom & stick next but, I am going to make up the Jack/Auxiliary boom first and get that working properly. The more I look at all the info I can see why the hoist drum cable is compounded 3 times...it is because the pulley at the top of the stick is so close to the pivot point you need 3 times the power to pull it up and it will rise 3 times as fast because it is so close to the pivot point. But....when I tried moving the pulley attachment closer to the pivot point it made it much harder for the stick to extend all the way? It could be the fact that I am running it without a Jack boom (hoist cable too low of an angle) that is causing the extension problem. I'll keep experimenting.

9W Monighan 02-02-2011 02:33 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
more pictures on the way Scott

Stuff 02-02-2011 03:28 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
wow now thats going to a whole new level Scott!

for the reduced speed in the pictures there the left hand aux gantry sheave to right hand aux gantry sheave could be hooked up omitting the bottom left hand gantry sheave and that should give you more speed?

SmallHaul 02-02-2011 05:26 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuff (Post 18053)
wow now thats going to a whole new level Scott!

for the reduced speed in the pictures there the left hand aux gantry sheave to right hand aux gantry sheave could be hooked up omitting the bottom left hand gantry sheave and that should give you more speed?
If you look at the 1:1 Unit Hoe in the first post it looks like it only loops back on itself once so, I'll probably do that.

I have the Jack boom setup and it works nice. It is not exactly like the Unit Hoe setup but, its close. After I Get the pics from Neil (Doodlebug) I can make it right.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...cks/cables.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...kboomsetup.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...boomsetup2.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...boomsetup3.jpg

Finster 02-02-2011 06:14 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
After watching the video I think you test of the boom was a big success. I think it works great! Well done! Since people are sending you BE info I thought that this video might help as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rlBuDefgog

SmallHaul 02-02-2011 06:44 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Thanks Finster, that is a good video of an old Hoe.

Here is a quick video of the Jack Boom moving:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHwxtKFnJD8

And loading a truck on flat ground:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovh1vyhqPBk

9W Monighan 02-02-2011 06:58 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Looks like you have it. I wish the freakin youtube vids would download faster! There must be something wrong because It takes way too long to buffer. I even have a fiber optic line to my shop for internet and takes way longer than the actual video run time.
Sorry to change the subject Scott.

Jared 02-02-2011 08:25 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Looks like you pretty much nailed it on the jack boom, Scott. After seeing that last video I'm turning green with envy.

Once you get that thing perfected you can move on to this: :D
http://www.constructionequipment.com...-wheel-loaders

W900snowman 02-02-2011 08:52 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Awesome addition to your fleet can't wait to see the finished product. Everyone on here is a very bad influence for me I with all these impressive models. Very nice Scott I'm really looking forward to seeing the undercarriage on this one.

Two Thumbs Up!!

SmallHaul 02-02-2011 09:29 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9W Monighan (Post 18074)
Looks like you have it.
Thanks Steve for all the pics and documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared (Post 18084)
Looks like you pretty much nailed it on the jack boom, Scott. After seeing that last video I'm turning green with envy.

Once you get that thing perfected you can move on to this: :D
http://www.constructionequipment.com...-wheel-loaders
Thanks Jared. Hmm...must stay focused...:D

Quote:
Originally Posted by W900snowman (Post 18089)
Awesome addition to your fleet can't wait to see the finished product. Everyone on here is a very bad influence for me I with all these impressive models. Very nice Scott I'm really looking forward to seeing the undercarriage on this one.

Two Thumbs Up!!
Thank You very much. I am looking forward to building it when more parts arrive.:)

doodlebug 02-02-2011 11:22 PM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Now I'm gonna scare you! I know where one is sitting! (Koehring skooper).
It's up by Rio Tinto's Kennecott Copper Mine in Utah. Yah Mike, possible road trip!
Later, Neil#2 aka doodlebug.

Papy 02-03-2011 01:30 AM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Another solution : the jack boom is attached rigid to the A-frame.

http://i78.servimg.com/u/f78/12/58/20/29/p1000210.jpg

SmallHaul 02-03-2011 08:25 AM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by doodlebug (Post 18096)
Now I'm gonna scare you! I know where one is sitting! (Koehring skooper).
It's up by Rio Tinto's Kennecott Copper Mine in Utah. Yah Mike, possible road trip!
Later, Neil#2 aka doodlebug.
It would be cool to see pics of it someday.:)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papy (Post 18108)
Another solution : the jack boom is attached rigid to the A-frame.

http://i78.servimg.com/u/f78/12/58/20/29/p1000210.jpg
Very unique looking machine.

Stuff 02-03-2011 09:59 AM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
man you have been busy!

that is just a maze of cables to me now lol

Papy 02-03-2011 10:13 AM
Re: Unit Cable Hoe
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallHaul (Post 18115)
......Very unique looking machine.
Not easy to load with this central sprocket design, but there's not a lot of these left, so it was worth saving it ;)

By the way, it was fun to carry it back home....

http://i78.servimg.com/u/f78/12/58/20/29/p1000211.jpg


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