Re: First build ,cat D11
 

BRUTAL!!! Are you going to put in a claim with Premacon against the shipper?

This is the oil I use in my models, Mobil Hydraul 50

http://www.mobil.com/Canada-English/...l_Hydraul.aspx

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Cooper I use Cat oil in my excavator with no problems the last jug I bought was $20.00 for 2 gallons. Ed

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

So just some light weight hydralic oil would be fine? I was thinking jack oil? I have lots of hydralic/trans fluid from 1:1 equipment. The premacon hpl22 oil seems pretty light compared to regular hydra oil. Just want to be sure. I was also thinking a heavier oil would help seal better.

##%##ss. $$#¥!!!!!!! Darn!!!! I came to the conclusion that I have to make the tilt cylinders 1" longer. When the blade is fully lifted and till all the way back the back of blade contacts the lift cylinders. I. Guess my calculations and redneck cad drawlings were,,, well accurate as soon as I de-solder and attach a one inch longer piece, were spot on!!!

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/...ps371fcac7.jpg
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/...ps769d41e8.jpg

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Absolutely amazing job Cooper!!! That would look real if you placed that in the dirt.

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1f724e9e.jpg
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7d3f2870.jpg
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/...psae3b44cf.jpg
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/...ps10247212.jpg

Only problem I ram into so far, I have to remake the cylinder head for the ripper tilt. I don't know what I did , mis read the dials, but it was too skinny and wouldn't seal.

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/...ps94d38a58.jpg

Got the radio and started on programming. It only took me about three hours to program all the mixing. :). I'm not that familiar with programming and mixes. But once I figured it out it started making sense and became relative easy. I have the radio set up with the fan on a switch, on and off whenever needed. The blade dump and tilt is on one switch so all I do is flip switch to go from dump to left/right tilt. Then the ripper up/down and tilt are on another switch to change from blade to ripper commands. All the hydraulic servos are on a mix with the pump. So the pump only activates once stick movement is input. Somewhere I read that saves battery and gives smooth movement to hydraulics. Sounds good to me :). And I do have the available switches for lights and sound when I get around to that.

So now it's time to start routing all the hydraulic lines.

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/...psa076c744.jpg

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Another question---

On the pressur relief valve I have (from premacon) I can blow air through it. I tried to loosen the set nut and tighten the flathead screwdriver bolt (assuming tightening will increase pressur) and I can still blow air through. It is a little hard kinda like blowing up a balloon. But I'm pretty sure I'm not capable of 120psi with my lungs. Should I take it apart or is this how it should be?

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

And I may have it backwards, is the pressur side on the bottom and the relief on the side? Or other way?

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Pressure in the bottom. I wouldn't think you should be able to blow through it! Either that or you should have taken over for Dizzy Gillespie.... Maybe it has crud in it not allowing the ball to seat?

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Hey coop the pressure will on the bottom opposit the set screw cover releif side ..there pretty simple insde ..set screw ,spring and a small ball bearing ..Looking good

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Sorry tried to edit ..releif off to the side

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2380607e.jpg

In this photo it's the brass color fitting that the pressure line is applied.

I doubt your prv was preset to anything, they usually never are, you'll probably have to screw that bolt in a long ways before it starts making pressure. Somewhere between 16 & 20Bar (if your meter is metric) would be plenty.

Activate your whatever valve is on a switch ch so the oil is deadheading, to set your pressure & your hands will be free to make adjustments.

I was reading your programming summary, concerning your hyd pump, whether it's on a 2pos or 3pos switch on tx. Off is off & the next step of the switch you should set your EPA to atleast 30% so the pump is running while you are pushing b/c you will be constantly adjusting blade height & don't want that pump coming to a complete stop - then start again many times is a short period of time.

These larger pumps with big brushless motors do surge some amperage to initially start up, and if you are start/stop pump motor 20x (just a guess, don't know how many times it takes on avg) in a minute, you will over heat your pump esc & trigger the thermal protection shutoff, providing the esc has one. Then your pump will be dead until that cools off & allows your esc to function again.

Having your pump "mixed" with the valves, your pump will rev up to increase pressure & flow when a valve is activated.

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Ahhhh,, good point joe, (I think that's yr name?). I will program the pump channel to run about 30% and will also put it onto a switch at 100% so I can set the pressure.

I did get her to run today, wasn't expecting much. Figured something would be backwards or hooked up wrong but to my supersize my initial run was flawless!!! It took about 15 seconds before the blade lifted. I had some oil in the cylinders but a lot of air. Once it cycled through a few times everything worked and no binding anywhere. I was very very happy and one of the few times in my life something I did worked correct on the first time!!!! I did take apart the prv, I do believe something was stuck in it, cleaned and played with a bit then put back together. I think it may have had a bur on the seat. Had to take apart and work the needle and seat some a few times.

On the list of things to do;
--Get rid of the battery tray replacing with something that can be screwed together after the hydraulic lines are hooked up and routed. Giving me more access to whatever is under it.
-- have to remake the blade cylinder seal housings. I originally made them to accept a regular hydraulic seal but later converted them to using x-rings and o-rings. ,, they leak.
--paint the grill, windows, touch up things, ect,,,
--make some hydraulic line guides for the stabilizer bar, using zip ties for now.
--make the tank breather more accessible so I can use it to fill and change oil.

I did do a rookie mistake, I had been playing with it for several minuets and a bit of oil had leaked out from the lift cylinders. I probably didn't have enough oil in the tank to start with. Once it started working I was so excited that I just didn't pay attention to the loss of oil and lack of oil. The blade started sticking and becoming sticky on the way down (it was running out of oil and sucking air). So I thought I needed to increase pressure. I was thinking the prv valve wasn't working so I cranked it in. Well I can say the pump make good pressure, went up to 40 and ended with oil all inside :(. Figured I deserved that for not paying attention. It blew a hose, ripped a gash in it, it didn't come disconnected anywhere but rather the line opened up. It was the blue hose I have and it may be a tad weaker than the black. Feels a bit more flexible. So after cleaning and degreasing most of the underside I realized what happened and still was just tickled pink that it worked !!!

I will get some video of the next time she runs !!!! Thanks for the input frome everyone, I really appreciate your guidance and advise, definitely hooked on the scale construction toys. Already planning on converting the backyard koi pond into a large construction site!!! (My duck has disappeared and it has a hole in the liner so it needs fixed or replaced,, or converted to a giant open pit mine:)))

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

http://youtu.be/kOfcwsboWgY

Just had to put it back together for a short video. For some reason the lateral tilt isn't working properly, I may have messed something up with the radio. Oh well I'll be on the right track soon :)

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

I think most everybody BLOWS a hose at least once while learning about mini hyds. :D

Good to see you are well on your way with all the programming & what not.

Would the problem with the lack of side to side tilt be b/c of the lift cyls? Perhaps at the same time you're reverse tilting, lift or lower lift cyls so one lift cyl will retract while the other extends... maybe? Seeings how the lift cyls are connected directly to the blade vs a U frame.

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Well the easy thing for me to do would be to make a pivot on the blade for the lift cylinders. But that isn't the right thing. I will get into adding another mix to lift channel so when tilt is enabled the lift cylinders will engage. Because they are on one valve it should enable all the pressure to go to one side resulting in relieving the opposing pressure created by the tilting. That's just going to cause some hair loss on my part involving that program mixing. Lol!!! On the first start up (no video taken of course) the tilting worked fine. I think that was a result in having some air in the cylinders/lines allowing some equalization.

On a good note, I found the cause of both lift cylinders leaking. When I drilled hole pattern for bolting shaft seal housing to cylinder I drilled into the side hole for lifting. They are soldered on but was careful to not add too much solder to run on inside of cylinder. That is allowing some fluid to follow the bolt threads and escape. I'll fix that. So for the most part my hydraulic system works well.

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

http://youtu.be/J7iC_Qik_J4

Got all the mixes working, now I just need to learn how to operate it!! I did put the pump on a switch that allows it to be off or on at 35%. The other mixes still work how they should, when engaged the pump reves up. The fan is also on a switch. That thing is quiet. I did remake the battery tray allowing me to take it out by unscrewing a few screws. That allows me access to lines, chain tensioner, breather for tank, just makes it sooo much easier to get in. I'll post some pics when I'm not on my phone later.

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Holy crap your drive motors are quiet! That thing is a beast!

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Where do you guys get the decals? Do you make your own?

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Congratulations on a very fine model! I agree with Avel, the drive system is the quietest I've (not) heard. Looks like you got the hydraulics problems worked out quite well. An observation: the hydraulics are much quicker than prototypical. I did a double-take on the blade and ripper speed - I'm sure it is personal preference, so no problem. They work great!

Surprised your dogs stayed back and just barked. My yellow lab, Stella, is drawn to noise, so she would have been down there sniffing and batting it with her paw.

Ken

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Thank you, it's going to see some dirt this weekend. I will get some video. The hydraulics can be operated very slow, it's my fingers that have to learn. I may change some expo in the settings. For now I'm just going to learn as is. I do have to reverse ripper lift, I like airplane controls where up stick is actually down blade and ripper. Pulling back on stick is up blade and up ripper.

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Very nice to see it moving, seems to work great! Looking forward to the dirt video! :)

Love when the barking dog peeks under the other like he's scared to death! :)

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Congratulations on a very fine model! Looking forward to a "Dirty Video"

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

After work I had the opportunity to throw a battery in and run it. First I had to finish installing the skid plates. For some reason they were the hardest to line up get the screws in. I had a lot of clearance room for the screws but paint must have been just enough to throw it off. And realized that 4 of the bolts are inaccessible unless I remove the equalizer bar. It was bad enough that I was laying on the ground with the dozer between the bench and a table supported by blade and ripper!! I had oil in and didn't want to chance some spilling out after I had to clean up from the last blow out. I ran about 10-12 min on a fully charged 5000mah battery with ending with 41% left. So if I run two 5000mah I should be able to enjoy a good 30+ min of runtime. Is that what you guys are around? Sorry I did not get any video but I will tomorrow as it's being moved to its destination. I tore up my yard near the walkway (bunch of dead grass/clumps) but taking it easy on sharp turns in grass the tracks and guides seem to be working well. No hair raised scared cat in the tracks, they layed flat. I do have to reshape the ripper, being flat on the cutting edge it just balled up a lot of dirt. Will post more tomorrow.

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Looking good! give your ripper shank a little bit of a bevel on the leading edge, to make it less blunt, then it will pull easier. Had the same problem with my skidsteer ripper.
Cheers, Neil.

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Cool, can't wait for a video of this beast pushing dirt.

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

http://youtu.be/y_ZFgqNrcdI

First dirt run. It's down at our river lot. Where I end up spending most of my summers. The soil is very sandy/silty river bank dirt. Only problem is there are a lot of finger roots from whatever is around. This soil has not been tilled just was raked off last year for our 1:14 scale race trucks. Two roots about the size of my pinky were stopping the dozer. At the end I lost right side drive, found out the set screw on sprocket must have loosened up. It's the sprocket on the motor shaft, yup the one that I have to practically take it completey apart to get to. I don't think the shaft has a flat, if it doesn't it will before it goes back together. :)

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

<a href="http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/cooperford/media/8985CB5F-3EFE-4F88-B4FC-5484A652A463_zpsqifdkibp.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q750/cooperford/8985CB5F-3EFE-4F88-B4FC-5484A652A463_zpsqifdkibp.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 8985CB5F-3EFE-4F88-B4FC-5484A652A463_zpsqifdkibp.jpg"/></a>

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Aesome Cooper ..you have come up with a very fine peice of equipment..Now you will be able to keep that track well maintained ..that ripper will take care of any weeds ...I really like that those motors are so quiet ..will work well with the new sound modual

BTW some of your pics didnt show up

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Great to see the big Cat running around under it's own power. In your videos, I like how it pretty much pushed everything that was in it's way, out of the way. :D It looks like a lot of fun to run.

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

I uploaded that pic of a root from my phone and copied the wrong link. :(.

Had to take her apart to investigate the drive problem, it wasn't too bad to get the motors out. I didn't have to mess with any of the hydraulics or electrical. (Well, disconnected two motor wires. )
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/...psb52360ad.jpg
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/...ps47e99dee.jpg
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3e55284a.jpg

After pulling the motor I found this was the problem, in the video you can see when it breaks. I don't think anything was binding I think it may have been locked onto a root and just the power of the motor broke the sprocket. And I did not have that second set screw in there where the fracture occurred.
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/...psc91cdce9.jpg

I do have two 11 tooth sprockets. The sprockets on now are 9. I did want a bit more speed for reversing and I have them so I think I will try them. They are the shiney ones in the above pic. A lot more meat on them. Only thing I have to do is make a new motor shaft as the small ones are 1/4" and the others are about 3/8". I still have the clearance for chain and everything else. Next time I dig up some bigger roots I will snip them with hand shears. I know this is a beast but it's not indestructible. We may even till up the track so roots will not be an issue.

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Thanks guys, yes the motors are super quiet. The noise is from the pump and pump motor. If it's not on you can't hear the drive motors running. I guess I'll start looking into that sound module. :). Hope to get those motor shafts done and back together in a few days, then some more videos. Possibly bring a load of fresh rock and root free dirt into the back yard too!!

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Can I run more than 12v through the premacon pump? Esc says 2-6 lipo, I'm running 3 was thinking about running 4s. 14 volts ? And I know a lot of people overvolt electric motors, was thinking of running them on 4s? Or is this a bad idea? On robot marketplace they sometimes say if a motor has been know to take a few more volts than rated (and hold up). Reason why I'm asking is after looking at parts on the sprockets I would have to enlarge the hole on frame to have clearance for the larger sprocket. I'm not sure I want to go that way, I would have to get rid of the shaft end support bearing and rely on just the motor housing bushing that I already shortened for sprocket clearance. Now I'm leaning towards getting another 9 tooth sprocket, that's why I'm inquireing about overvolting to 4s. How would the pump fair out if I ran it at 80% max on 4s? I've always been told esc run best at wide open (less heat up).

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

See what your esc is rated for . You can set your end point back a lil if your esc can handle the voltage . I have done this on my Mack using the 6V UMS pump for dumping and run the truck on 12V .

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

So that root the size of your pinky is about the equivalent of a 8" diameter tree ? Dang - I'd say your doing just fine!

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

Well after looking into all the possibilities I ordered more sprockets to fit the 1/4" shaft for the motors in use. I was investigating the broken sprocket and it's a type of cast/forged metal, very porous in the break area. I can't tell for sure but it looked as if had some stress crack elsewhere. It may have been weak to start with. I don't know if it would have made a difference with the other set screw installed. To me it looked like it rotated a bit then after the set screw slid to the end of the flat spot on shaft it put a bit of an oblong force to it creating the break. And broke at the weakest point (where the second set screw should have been. And I also ordered a pair of 10 and 11 tooth sprockets with 1/4" shaft to keep everything how I originally built it. Not messing with voltages as it is running fine how it is. I just want a bit more speed for long backing up passes.

Operating it is just as much a learning curve as building. Something could have gotten lodged in tack also. I know when I'm on full size machines I'm always looking out for things that could cause damage. You know like not having your wife crank the power stearing on a road you are building with a machine that has just dumped shale on. Yup, sliced the **** out of the tires. :( but she was dropping my lunch off) lol!! McMaster -Carr has them and I ordered tonight so I will have them Tuesday. As long as I order before 3 I have parts next day, except Sunday. I guess warehouse is close.

After running for about 45 min should I change the oil to get rid of any contaminates from the building process? And I had some dark oil come out of cylinders when I took them apart while mocking up. I thing the polish compound had some on shafts and cylinders resulting in that. I am using hydralic oil so it's basically unlimited source for this little machine. 5 gallon should last a couple years :).

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

I would change it. At least empty the tank, then run/cycle some more and empty again. The first time I ran the hydraulics on my loader for about an hour, not moving just setting speeds and mixes and lifting things, the oil came out pretty dark. All later oil changes it wasn't as dark. Yeah color isn't everything, but its never been as dark since, even after running for two hours in the sun.

Re: First build ,cat D11
 

I use 4s in my Vario hoe with no troubles... virtually the same pump & motor that you're using. What voltage are your drive motors rated at?

I don't remember seeing a hyd filter during your assembly, do you have one? You could change your oil now, but a little discolouring is nothing to worry about.