Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

I need some insite on how you guys have built up a operational end dump.

I'm starting with rails and axles from a tamiya flat bed. The box will be from the flat bed parts and some aluminum sheet stock.

My question is more to the mechanical parts


1. what type of screwdriver,pto,pump etc....is best used to lift this thing when loaded with dirt or sand. Cost and simplisity is a factor.

2. Will I need a 2nd battery to operate a pump or lift?



Any tips are helpful


Thanks for looking

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Whats a DPDT switch?

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Really nice trailer there! I loke the walking beam set up. It must be pretty stable with a full load of dirt... Im pondering this suspension as well...Is there a mfg of that specific screw drive? And where did you hide the battery in the trailer.I don't see a false floor in that bed?

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Double Pole, Double Throw switch. Basically a switch that reverse the polarity to the load, in this case the screw driver motor. That way it can raise or lower the dump box. You would want a three position DPDT throw switch for this application. The center position is 'off'.

Alternately, you could also use a cheap ESC to do the same job. A DPDT switch would still be less expensive, even with a cheap servo to actuate the switch.

Depending on your budget, there are some wireless infrared trailer systems that have outputs to run a couple accessories on the trailers, beyond lights. These could be used to run a screw drive also.

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Search out screw drive setup and it will pull up a thread and Travis replied to it how to do the setup. On mine I have the battery in the truck that way I can use the truck for a couple different trailers . I have a deans plug for the power connection and a servo lead for a servo to work tailgate latch .
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/...108_204024.jpg
in the pic you can see my connections for the trailers nope this helps:)

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

ive wondered about this too. ive considered using a fergelli actuator for a dump truck, but im not sure about a trailer.for connecting the trailer, you could always do this :D

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/...psc0f0e6de.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/...psa9436c41.jpg

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Thanks Espeefan,I have been using ESC from cheap toy.

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Firgelli is pretty good - they're just small complete bolt on screw drives.

Izzy

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

most drives ive seen have been 10-32 thread. sometimes more agressive like 1/4-20 - but all depends upton you motor and gear reduction.

remember that the traveling support rests on rails and the thread only pulls it along.


Izzy

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Ok I got my carson motor and lift... Oz truck do you have any pics of your trailer to show where you located the lift and how much of an angle you can get. My worry is that I need to find the happy medium with the lift vs travel. A lot of end dumps I see don't get up high and the load wants to stick. It's the same problem with real world end dumps...

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

easy salutation to sticking load... start moving the truck just like in the real world

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Unfortunately dirt doesn't scale well, and so our model trucks require a lot more violent rocking to loosen the load then the 1:1 rigs. Sometimes with wet sand or dirt, that may not even work.

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

well I started on my end dump frame and Carson lift and I just didn't like the lack of hight I was getting. When I reposition the lift I got better hight but it lost leverage. So I think I will try and make a set up like Travis made.
Here was the frame wite the notch cut out for the Carson lift.http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps633162a1.jpg

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Got this project going again...changed the design a little and went with a 1/4 frame design.

I hope my thinking works out as I'm not sure the screwdrive pushing down on the front of the tandems will make a smooth / strong raise of the trailer. If not I have one more idea before looking at hydraulics,

It currently has stock trailer axels but I would likely make a walking beam for much better stability.


If anyone has some kingpins or knows a quick trick to find what will work from a hardware store please chime in...


http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps7ab56669.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psa789c776.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psd0265211.jpg

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

.25 inch shoulder bolts with the head ground down just enough to get into the 5th wheel . All I used for my own stuff when I started in this hobby . Hardware store find .

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Thanks for that tip!


.....should have plenty around here....

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Arms are done, now to hook up the screwdrive to lift the box.... The trailer will hopefully have the battery and the motor contained between the axels . This will keep the center of gravity lower and keep most of the workings hidden.

Pictures are a little crappy...sorry.


Thanks for looking

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psd9c9603c.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps0773eb01.jpg

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

like this build, makes me want to start building one even more now though.

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Thanks . It was fun building this trailer. I started with a standard full frame and ended up with a deluxe 1/4 frame


Here it is now that I have all the arms made and lift motor installed. The arms work perfect and Incan get a hair over 45 deg lift . The rear 1/4 frame stays level the whole time the box is raising. I set up the arms so it puts a little rake into the 1/4 frame so it leans forward putting more weight on the drives. This will help with traction after the load comes out. It was a fin balancing act to get the arms to work and keep things level.

The tractor 5th wheel now has an aluminum plate under it so the plastic does not bend when lifting the loaded box. I also had to "bar" the 5th wheel so it stays level as the arms need to pivot at the front. I plan to taper the front of the arms before final assembly so the trailer sits lower up front yet still have a slight rearward slant just like the real ones often do.

The down side is I don't think the screw drive is going to work.it currently has a 4:1 reduction with a integy 85 turn motor. It will barely lift itself at the start of its travel. Once it gets going it is fine but it's stressed even with the 4:1...

I was going to buy the rc4wd 16:1 and see how well that does before investing in a hydraulic cylinder and pump kit.


http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps0563f099.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps1d66637f.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f2...pse932d351.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps09acb348.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps8baeb215.jpg

Thanks for looking

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Nice trailer, I like the fact that you attempted this frame style with a screw drive, got any videos?

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Hello very nice looking trailer. Those arm that go from the back frame to the front frame to the fifth wheel are called draft arms and you only need one set the outside longer ones. Just thought I'd make a suggestion I have pulled these trailers before they actually tip over easier than a solid frame do to the fact of the bushing wearing quicker and getting sloppy. Ed

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Correct me if I'm wrong LMACKATTACK, but the extra inboard arms are what's lifting the bed from the screw drive? I think we're supposed to ignor those.:):lol::lol:

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Hi guys...yea the inner arms are attached to the screw drive and they push down on the 1/4 frame and force the Draft arms To sissor,thus the box goes up....you are correct that you would not see those on a 1:1 1/4 frame end dump.

Poor pic but you can see where the inner arms attach to the screw drive.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps10cf343b.jpg



I have pulled all 3 styles of end dumps....Full frame,frameless, and 1/4 frame.

Each have their good and bad...personaly I like the 1/4 frames as they are more stable than a frameless yet you can " inch worm" out if you get hung up after the load comes out....

First trailer I pulled was a full frame...nice and stable just don't get stuck!


I have not made a video but will try to make one this weekend...


Trent

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Quick video of how the 1/4 frame works....

You can see that it moves pretty fast and needs much more reduction.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYEcT...e_gdata_player

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

veryy nice

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

so ? out of curiousity does that design cause your wheel base to shorten when dumping? if so has it been difficult for you to dump in a single spot?

ekim jr

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Yes the trailers wheel base shrinks as the box goes up. The Idea is you back into your spot. Set the tractor brakes and then raise the box. As the box goes up it pulls the trailer axels close to the truck and the load starts to come out. Then you release the tractor brakes and when you lower the box it moves the tractor forward...kinda like an inch worm. It can help you get out of a soft spot where traction is limited. some people set the trailer and let it drag the truck back but I prefer walking the trailer out so the load spreads.

As long as you keep the truck and trailer straight when dumping you are fine. And actually you should never raise the box when the truck is not straight to the trailer. It's hard to see if it's leaning when you are on an angle?. Not to mention you should be backing in on a flat surface and pulling out in the same path.

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

All you have said about dumping a dump trailer is true in a perfect world but the world we live in is not perfect. I have dumped them jackknifed across the Cross Bronx in New York when they rebuilt it in the late 60s during morning rush hour the contract got a $1000 fine for that. Ed

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Nice working trailer. Did you cure the lifting issue . I am. Building a straight frame end dump and having a hard time find a motor to raise it. I am on third motor cobo witch is out of a small impact screw gun speed is a little fast and will raise a 5/8 load of sand. But not a full load. A full load is 3/4 of a 5 gallon bucket.
Patrick.

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Havent found a solid solution. My box sounds about the same size as yours and will also hold 3/4 of a 5 gallon bucket. I am Also trying a small screwdriver motor right now. It has 2 planetary gear reductions limiting the revs to a max of 350rpm and puts put 110 lbs of force. Problem is the out put shaft is not set up for adding a gear. I will need to have something machined. I'm also clueless how to figure out the needed power to lift a fully box of sand or dirt.

What size screw driver motor are you using? Does it have reduction?

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Just thinking : Is there any trust bearing installed on the screw ends ?

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Yes I used a 1/4 -20 threaded rod with brass bushings and thrust bearings to carry both top and side load of the rod when moving...

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

I am confused :0/ How much angle do the screw/or arms got when it start lifting the box ? the greater the stronger it will get. Any close up photo to look at ?

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

The starting angel of the screw drive push rod is 12 degrees. the screw drive starts to push at the same spot that the draft arms meet in the middle of the trailer. I made longer push rods that put the starting point of the screw drive further forward but it seamed even worse.

The arms move freely, no bind. And obviously the hardest part is the first few inches of lift. Once it gets going it seams like a little more reduction will be all that's needed.

I don't have any close up pics but I can get some tomorrow...

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

This is the screw gun that I used to get motor and gear reduction from. With 12 v it turns 750 rpm with 135 in lb torque. It won't lift a full load.
Patrick

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Here's a pic of motor installed in my end dump
Patrick

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Thanks for the info im very Well glad you headed me off before I tried installing my screwdriver motor....your screw driver is rated for more power than mine so this one won't work....looks like time to invest in a hydraulic 4 stage ram and pump.


I saw scale art has a nice one but way over priced. Weidco has one but I hear its a leaky pig....

Any suggestions on a middle of the road hoist. If not looks like I will have to make my own...

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

wedico is a hit and miss . I just did an install of 1 and was surprised, no leaky . as for scale Art , you get a very well constructed cylinder also rebuildable . In my calculations , for a cylinder built like scale arts , the price is more then fair .

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

Do you feel the wedico pump and hoist is up to the task of lifting a full box of clay or sand? I see it lists it as having 6kp at 6 bar. I know 6 bar is the pressure rated but clueless to what 6kp is?



Yea the scale art looks very correct and built well. Im just trying to do this on a budget.

Re: Full frame Dump trailer build ?
 

6 bar is 87 psi, that makes sense. But 6 kilopascals shows .87 pounds force per square inch, on my conversion app, not sure the kp is correct? Can you send a link with more info?
Cheer's, Neil.