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Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
Lots of options for hydra motor control to conserve battery consumption.
Turn pump on/off via remote http://www.robotmarketplace.com/prod...-BATTLSW1.html This esc works great for tracked models, but you can also turn off the "mix" feature and run two motors seperately. I use this esc in my articulated dump trk to propel it for/rev and operate the hydra pump. If I were using a better radio I would "mix" the proportional channels of the valves with the hydra pump, but currently I'm using the ratchet stick to control hydra pump rpm manually. http://www.robotmarketplace.com/prod...ER2X10-RC.html This is the "auto sense" that Nathan refers to. The slightless bit of movement of the vlaves for oil flow and the hydra pump activates, but you have to have the valves perfectly centered or the pump will never shut off. If I recall correctly, it's about 2 or 3 second delay with no valve movement before the hydra pump turns off. http://www.leimbach-modellbau.de/start.html (scroll down left header to LKW Zubehor and click Pumpenbaustein) Here's a handy translator to read foreign sites. http://translate.google.com/#de|en| |
Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
Servonaut BMA is very similar to what Leimbach offers.
http://www.tematik.de/servonaut/Prod...r/BMA/bma.html I have few of those in use. It works nice with Servonaut SMT soundmodule: when the hd-pump starts it will increase the engine revolutions like in the real thing. It will also make the engine sound like it´s under a load when the hd-cylinders move. |
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Nice find on those ESC's! Robotics is a great source of parts for custom RC's.
Here's a link to the "auto sense" http://www.leimbach-modellbau.de/Pumpenbaustein.html Usually in sites like that you can open the link in a new tab and get the URL to paste. |
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I have no experience with Servonaut, but have heard many good things of them, a much more refined electronic product for precise radio control... it's good to meet another who has Hemi1966, should I ever choose to aquire any of their products I won't have to learn any hard lessens while trying to decipher the german instructions. :)
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Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
Great information Joe. Glad you saw the other thread and posted all this!
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How would I wire up an ESC to the pump to shut it off when not in use? I'm more than likely going to need this option when I start pulling this 48 lb, scraper around.
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Joe wire it to a 3 way switch Ole told me that. Ed
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Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
Joe I got a Servonaut S20 for the loader and it is in English how to hook it up. Ed
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Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
Wire the pump motor just the same as you would a drive motor for a track. Though I wouldn't connect the rx lead to a 3 pos switch ch on the radio b/c it would defeat the purpose of using an esc, might as well just use the battle switch relay instead, full on or full off.
On the radio, if you have a proportional dial switch, plug the pump esc into that ch so you can set the pump motor rpm's/rate of hyd flow to where you feel it works well for you. Or if you understand "dual rates" and your radio has that capability, then you can tune your pump to activate when a servo/valve is activated. Read the instructions that came with your radio thoroughly to figure out the dual rates option, it'll explain it much clearer than anyone here can. |
Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
So I would wire my pump power wires into the battle switch and then plug in the wire from the battle switch into what ever channel on the rx I was going to use to turn the pump on and off with, right? I do have duel rates on my radio, so I would tune it with that, correct? Remember Joe, my extent of electrical is turn the switch on, if that doesn't work I'm lost. lol
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Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
Heres a vid of how it works...gona have to study my manual to see if i can give it a whirl...gone save an extra channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cju6hbueaOg |
Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
I thought you already had the battle switch Joe, no?
The battle switch is an on/off relay. To wire it in to turn pump on/off, splice into the negative wire between the pump and main switch (cut the wire in half) and place each bared end into the relay terminals. There's three terminals on this relay, you only use two of them. You can either turn on relay to activate/close electrical loop to turn on pump or you can use the other side so when you turn off relay, it closes electrical loop to turn on pump. Instructions come with it and they are very easy to follow. ;) Electronics is not my friend either, but even I can do this much. :D If you wish to program your radio so your pump/valves work just like Ole's dozer, then you'll need to wire your electric pump motor to an esc for variable rate/proportional control. You can wire the pump's esc into the same exsisting battery that runs your dozer currently or from a seperate battery. If the esc has BEC capabilities, then just remove the red wire from the rx lead before installing into the receiver b/c your receiver is already getting power from your tracks esc. You're going to St Louis in a few months, get your items together now to take with you and surely one of the guys there will know how to wire it up... if you really don't want to do it yourself, but it's really quite simple. :) |
Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
Yeah, I forgot I had wired it in back when I first built everything and took it out when trying to set the winch up. So all I had to do is hook it back up. I don't ever have to go in there except to charge the bat, so wasn't sure what was in there still. Thanks for the reply, Joe.
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Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
I just played around with a radio mix from the valves to the pump rpm. That's a great way to set it up. I gave the pump a low idle around 10%, then moving the valves increases pump rpm as high as needed. My hydraulics run even cooler now and it sounds really neat.
I'm impressed. |
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you gave my oneway esc something to do on my excavator pump thanks for tip
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Joe, this is great info can you make it a sticky?
I missed it when I posted my pump question.:o |
Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
Why would you use an ESC as opposed to a switch?
Albert |
Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
I asked the same question Albert. With an excavator or a model with hyd steer cyl's as long as you are using the model you are using the pump. To me it is also redundant to varie the speed of the pump as the spool is a variable control if the speed controller is linear with the servo movement then at a low input with a heavy load in a bucket you would not have the psi for fine control when a higher psi is still needed. On my track loader I use an rc on-off switch to shut the pump off if i want to take a break. Just my thoughts.
Travis |
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Travis |
Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
Hi All just joined.
If any one fancies a roll your own pump switch based on a 12f675 pic and a fet then I can post the code and schematics. The dead band can be easily programmed and the delay time to the pump switch off. The one I have in my excavator works great on 4 hydraulic channels Iain UK |
Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
Hey Iain, Welcome aboard! Please share your info on the pump controler, New way's to do thing's are alway's appreciated here!
Later, Neil#2 aka doodlebug. |
Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
Same reply as in another thread: As for the Leimbach system, it seems there's little difference in strength when it comes to the pump's speed. Here's a little test I did yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqNTPp1g4pE
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Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
If you look at performance graphs for gear pumps the faster they rotate the greater volume they move which overcomes the internal leakage more and more.
However like most things there is a compromise and they will consume more and more power as they do this. |
Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
hi all
here is the asm code for a pump switch as used in my excavator for a couple of years. Works on a 12f675 pic. I'll try and post a link to video of it working soon. ;============================================= ; written by Iain Dunn ; 2 August 2010 revision release ; version 1.2 PCB EXPRESSPCB main revised3 ; file saved as pumpswitch675.asm ; for 12f675 ; int clock 4MHz ;============================================== ; Description,3 or 4 channel inputs for pump control ; via 1 fet 19N10. ; Input 4 not programmed yet ; ; |----||----| ; | 100n | ; 5v--|-------|----0V ; NC----|12f675 |----in2 GP0 ;GP4pumpout----| |----in1 GP1 ; GP3 in4----|-------|----in3 GP2 ; List P=12f675 ; define processor #INCLUDE <p12f675.inc> ; processor specific definitions ;================================================= ================= ;configuration ;no data protect ;no code protect ;no brown out reset ;no MCLR pin function ;power up timer disabled ;Watchdog timer enabled ;oscillator INTOSC with no CLKOUT __config _CP_OFF & _CPD_OFF & _BODEN_OFF & _MCLRE_OFF & _WDT_ON & _PWRTE_ON & _INTRC_OSC_NOCLKOUT errorlevel -302 ;suppress error 302 radix dec ;everything in decimal ;unless indicated ;========== constants========================================= ============ ;GPIO,1 chan1 GPIO,3 chan 2 all rest outputs #define INPUT_1 1 #define INPUT_2 0 #define INPUT_3 2 #define PUMPOUT GPIO,4 #define minpulse 80 #define lowon 140 #define highon 160 #define maxpulse 220 #define OFFDLAY 20 ; delays switching off pump #define TisBits (1<<INPUT_1)|(1<<INPUT_2)|(1<<INPUT_3) ;========Notes==================================== ======================== ;pulses must be larger than 0.8ms to be valid and less than 2.2ms ;The switching limits are ;1.55 ms upper off 1550us ;1.45 ms lower off 1450us ;==========Variables============================== ======================= cblock 0x20 CHAN_1 ; channel 1 width CHAN_2 ; channel 2 width CHAN_3 ; channel 3 width ARM_PULSES ; stores arm pulse count ARM_1 ; channel 1 arm pulse count ARM_2 ; channel 2 arm pulse count ARM_3 ; channel 3 arm pulse count Dlay Dlay_outer Dlay_inner OffCount ; delays pump switch off for 1/2 second endc ;=========Declarations============================ ======================= org 0 ;first instruction to be executed goto START ;========Initilizations=========================== ======================= INIT clrf GPIO ;clear all outputs for now bsf STATUS, RP0 ; bank 1 call 3FFh ;call osc calibration movwf OSCCAL movlw b'1001010' ;WDT scale 1:4 gives around 72ms movwf OPTION_REG ;before reset movlw TisBits ;GPIO 2,3,5 input GPIO,0,1,4 output movwf TRISIO clrf ANSEL bcf STATUS, RP0 ;bank 0 movlw b'00000111' ;turn off comparator movwf CMCON ;digital i/o clrf T1CON ;turn off timer 1 clrf ADCON0 return ;========== Start of main outer loop of program =============================== START call INIT clrf GPIO clrf CHAN_1 ; clrf CHAN_2 clrf CHAN_3 movlw OFFDLAY movwf OffCount movlw 50 movwf ARM_PULSES clrwdt ;========== wait for 25 valid pulses to arm ===================== ARMING clrf ARM_1 clrf ARM_2 clrf ARM_3 btfss GPIO,INPUT_1 goto $-1 ARMLOOP_1 incf ARM_1,f btfss GPIO,INPUT_1 b ARM2 nop b $+1 b $+1 b ARMLOOP_1 ARM2 btfss GPIO,INPUT_2 goto $-1 ARMLOOP_2 incf ARM_2,f btfss GPIO,INPUT_2 b ARM3 nop b $+1 b $+1 b ARMLOOP_2 ARM3 btfss GPIO,INPUT_3 goto $-1 ARMLOOP_3 incf ARM_3,f btfss GPIO,INPUT_3 b PULSE_1 nop b $+1 b $+1 b ARMLOOP_3 PULSE_1 movlw lowon subwf ARM_1,w ; ARM_1-lowon(148) bnc ARMING movlw highon subwf ARM_1,w ; ARM_1-highon(152) bc ARMING PULSE_2 movlw lowon subwf ARM_2,w ; ARM_2-lowon(148) bnc ARMING movlw highon subwf ARM_2,w ; ARM_2-highon(152) bc ARMING PULSE_3 movlw lowon subwf ARM_3,w ; ARM_3-lowon(148) bnc ARMING movlw highon subwf ARM_3,w ; ARM_3-highon(152) bc ARMING VALID_NEUTRAL clrwdt decfsz ARM_PULSES,f goto ARMING ;========= now armed beep from both motors ========================================== movlw 10 movwf Dlay_outer clrf Dlay_inner PWM_LOOP clrwdt bsf PUMPOUT movlw 10 movwf Dlay decfsz Dlay,f goto $-1 clrf GPIO movlw 100 movwf Dlay decfsz Dlay,f goto $-1 decfsz Dlay_inner,f goto PWM_LOOP decfsz Dlay_outer,f goto PWM_LOOP clrf GPIO ;turn motors off ;========= Wait for channel pulses to start ========================================= RCIN1 clrf CHAN_1 btfss GPIO,INPUT_1 b $-1 LOOP_1 incf CHAN_1,f btfss GPIO,INPUT_1 b RCIN2 nop b $+1 b $+1 b LOOP_1 RCIN2 clrf CHAN_2 btfss GPIO,INPUT_2 b $-1 LOOP_2 incf CHAN_2,f btfss GPIO,INPUT_2 b RCIN3 nop b $+1 b $+1 b LOOP_2 RCIN3 clrf CHAN_3 btfss GPIO,INPUT_3 b $-1 LOOP_3 incf CHAN_3,f btfss GPIO,INPUT_3 b PROCESS_IN_1 nop b $+1 b $+1 b LOOP_3 ;==========process the channel timings ==================================== PROCESS_IN_1 clrwdt movlw minpulse subwf CHAN_1,w ; CHAN_1-minpulse(80) bnc PROCESS_IN_2 movlw maxpulse subwf CHAN_1,w ; CHAN_1-maxpulse(220) bc PROCESS_IN_2 movlw lowon subwf CHAN_1,w ; CHAN_1-lowon(145) bnc PUMP_ON movlw highon subwf CHAN_1,w ; CHAN_1-highon(155) bc PUMP_ON PROCESS_IN_2 movlw minpulse subwf CHAN_2,w ; CHAN_2-minpulse(80) bnc PROCESS_IN_3 movlw maxpulse subwf CHAN_2,w ; CHAN_2-maxpulse(220) bc PROCESS_IN_3 movlw lowon subwf CHAN_2,w ; CHAN_2-lowon(145) bnc PUMP_ON movlw highon subwf CHAN_2,w ; CHAN_2-highon(155) bc PUMP_ON PROCESS_IN_3 movlw minpulse subwf CHAN_3,w ; CHAN_3-minpulse(80) bnc RCIN1 movlw maxpulse subwf CHAN_3,w ; CHAN_3-maxpulse(220) bc RCIN1 movlw lowon subwf CHAN_3,w ; CHAN_3-lowon(145) bnc PUMP_ON movlw highon subwf CHAN_3,w ; CHAN_3-highon(155) bc PUMP_ON PUMP_OFF decfsz OffCount,f b RCIN1 bcf PUMPOUT movlw OFFDLAY movwf OffCount b RCIN1 PUMP_ON bsf PUMPOUT movlw OFFDLAY movwf OffCount b RCIN1 ;============End programme ================================================== ======== return END |
Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
2 Attachment(s)
Hi again. just thought I would include a pic of my control board amd circuit diagram. This has 3 speed controllers and the hydraulic pump switch on it. The pump switch is good to about 4 amps without heatsink but can go up to 12 amps with a heatsink.
The pump switch is the bottom PIC chip. Not sure if the diagram will be big enough as an attachment. |
Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
Is the pump all you can run off this board?
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No the board has 3 escs' on board as well, 1 for slew and 2 for track motors and a 5v supply .
http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/o...ntrolboard.jpg |
Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
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So I would think on a small scale model there is no reason why the pump can't be throttled back to reduce heat, and increase battery life. Sounds like a win win situation to me. Heat is the worst enemy for a hydraulic system, next to oil contamination. Yes, you could put a heat exchanger on any hydraulic system, but on a scale model, it would be easier and cheaper to throttle back the pump, or shut it off completely. Out in industry, where I work, we are starting to see some hydraulic pumps run with electric motors, and variable frequency motor drives, which throttle the motor and pump RPM back, when the flow is not needed. The worst is when an operator walks away from a machine and leaves it running. The oil is constantly going over the relief valve and the motor is drawing more power in doing so, while also heating up the oil for the next few hours. Yes, the heat exchangers cool the oil too, but it is still getting warmer then it normally would, if the machine is cycling. |
Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
Nate the cooler and fan are under $30 so I would say it is probably a little cheaper than a speed controller. To me it just seams like a wast of money and time to deal with a simple issue.
Travis |
Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
One thing to consider, the newer John Deere excavator's with "Power Wise" do speed up and slow down depending on hydraulic load. Sound's weird to hear them speed up under heavier load, maybe 2-300 rpm. My neighbor has a 160 Deere, that doe's it. And yes this is separate from the "auto idle" function.
Later, Neil#2 aka doodlebug. |
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Here is a link to short video showing my excavator running with my control board. I have it programmed so when all sticks are neutral hydraulic pumo will switch off after 2 seconds. Hope you find it useful. If you want further details of this board and how to build program one let me know and I'll post otherwise I'll assume it's of no interest. ;)
Cheers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaDPkz3Z5JA |
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A cooler could easily be set up with just the one pump. Placed in the return to tank line from the control valve block and with a low psi bypass around it.
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Hey Iain, thank's for sharing the controller info, over my head, but still neat!
Later, Neil#2 aka doodlebug. |
Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
Hi Iain
is is possible you could share the pic hex files for both the H-Bridge drive pics and the pump switch pic. I can program pic's and a couple local guys would like to play with you design. Thanks for sharing Quote:
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Re: Hydraulic Pump Motor Control Options
2 Attachment(s)
Would you prefer the assembler as you then play around with it in mplab ?
I have posted the assembler for the pump switch above: Below is the speed control based on microchips simple esc desigen but rewritten to give forward and reverse. The track motor controls are on one 12f675 and are simply forward and reverse for both run off toggle switches on my trasnmitter. I did do a 2 speed version but didn't gain much from it: Any questions just ask. Iain |
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I am looking to take some shortcuts to start with. So If you have the .hex binary files would save me some time initially. I use Eagle for pcb design and I make prototype pcb's on a small cnc mill built for the purpose.
I have your schematic diagram, could you post an image of the copper side of the pcb? It will save me some layout time. I don't currently have mplab installed anywhere. Looks like I will have to rebuild my development box. Thanks for all your help. Ted Quote:
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I work for the CAT Rental Store and work on all kinds of hyd systems by a lot of different manufactures JLG, Broderson, LULL, Bell, Trail King, and the list goes on but hay my boss will be glad you explained to me how it works. All I am saying is why over complicate some thing you can take care of with a cheap switch or cooler.:cool: Quote:
Travis |
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