Two hydraulic problems

[cosworth34677]

Ok I have two problems the first problem is that my that my Rams on my hydraulic systems move slowly but not all of them just the ones that are split into two like the one that lives the boom on the excavator or the one that list the arm on my front end loader they move slow with no power the others on the system have tons of power but those that split into two have almost any no power.

Also the other problem that I'm having and always had, with the mago mHRC hydraulic systems are the motors on the pump get blazing hot! why is this? I've been thinking this is whats eating up the gears in my system I go through gears and motors on their system a lot, and I don't think that that should be the way. is there something missing in the system is there a clog in a line or the fittings to small any help would help out I'm tired of spending tons of money on these toys.

[Digger_Bear]

I don't have this problem with my Magom pump. Been running it for over an hour today scraping some weeds out of the garden, even stalled the pistons on some occasions but no excessive heat problems.

It does sound where your oil is shared between a pair of pistons there isn't enough pressure left to work them as well as the singular ones. On my excavator the main boom pistons which work in a pair are split at the valve block then piped separately so at a guess maybe your pipes cannot carry enough volume to the pair of pistons, might also explain why the pump is getting hot if it's struggling to force enough oil.

[Supermario]

Try and test the 2 cylinders one at a time. When 2 cylinders share the same supply , if one is bad, both will be weak.or maybe there's an issue with the valve?
Perhaps your running the motor too fast? Have you tried reducing pump speed and see if temps drop? I would deal with cylinder issue first then take a closer look at heat issue.

[Rimrock]

Check out the servo open the valve max. in both directions. Be sure there are no air in the cylinders.

[cosworth34677]

Well kind of embarrassed on the front end loader because it was a problem with the centering of the servo it seems that the the valves were just slightly open on the bucket side and on the arm side so it wouldn't lift the armed with full power. I also found out that the pump on the motor seems to run better since I centered the service it doesn't seem to get as hot in it seems to be running free.

But the excavator is a total different problem itself seems to be running bad no matter what I do and I burned up the motor to the point that it doesn't even spin at full speed I don't understand what's wrong with this system because everything is centered and the valves flow free when I run them without being connected to any RAM they shoot shoot oil out the little fittings but when I connect them back to the system d to lift pistons on the boom still move very slowly and with no power but the stick in the bucket have tons of power I still don't understand what's going on with this one and why I burnt up three motors now and still has this lifting problem.

[steamer]

Cotsworth, take a picture of the cylinder setup including the way you have the hose's connected and I'm sure someone will figure it out for you. Without a picture there no way of helping without seeing the problem.
Rob

[Digger_Bear]

Are both pistoned piped up correctly ie both pushing at same time and not one push and other pulling.

[cosworth34677]

sorry about that here are som pic's









this is the way a have my system setup, not the cleanest but...... ya

[Rimrock]

A possibility is that there could be some obstruction in one, or several of the fittings/channels leading from the fittings into the cylinder barrel. Another possibility is internal leaks in the piston O-rings (which will wear over time). But if it's been like this all time, the O-rings might be okay, as the other cylinders work okay. So I would possible dismantled the cylinders from the machine and checked the fittings/channels for obstructions. Maybe something is not 'in-line' and causes a obstruction.
Regarding the pump, if it's an early Magom product, it just 'enjoys' running hot...15-20K rpm, foaming and 'boiling' oil..Possible helps to reduce the pressure setting. Newer pumps with brushless motors seams to have been upgraded to perform better and last longer.

[steamer]

After looking at the pictures the only thing I would suggest is to track both line back too the valve block and make sure they're on the same spool. The second would be to switch the cylinders to another spool just see if the spool your using is the problem. Another is to just reverse the hoses on the spool and see if the oil flows better that way. Just trying step by step eliminations should get it.
Rob

[Supermario]

With bucket off the ground, machine shut off, does the boom hold position or drift down? If you pull up on the boom, does it hold position?

[Lil Giants]

Are you using the same oil in both models? Same grade & same type?

Hydraulic systems are extremely sensitive to contamination, the slightest spec of dirt/sand/rock will screw up a valve, block a fitting, scar a cyl barrel, nick an o ring. Do you have a filter between pump & valve?

Paired cyls - split the flow = slower response, but twice the power. No power? a blockage problem or incorrect valve movement.

Pump motor runs too hot b/c it's working too hard or running too fast. Use a lighter grade oil and/or slow down motor speed.

What ID plumbing is being used?

[cosworth34677]

Well I'm using anti freeze in the excavator. And using iso32 in the loader. Or usING magom hrc systems. The loader mostly always works, and works great but a few leaks here and there. The excavator is a work in progress.

The hoses are 3mm using full strength antifreeze. And a 2x2x3" tank.

Also the rams hold but slowly fall after a few hours.

[chris deacon]

Ok well 1st thing is i would swap out the anti freeze for some 15w-22w hydraulic oil. Make sure to bleed the system completely of air. And then slow the motor down. What sort of percentage of the full motor speed are you using ?

[cosworth34677]

I'm using 80% ESC speed.i'll try to get the oil. Can I get that from a hardware store, or do I have to go to a hydraulic shop?

[chris deacon]

ok it looks like a magom mini pump you are using? How have you got this set up? Do have a pvr fitted or a extra valve? is the pump running continuous or does it start and stop on ram movements? I suspect by looking at the pictures you are not running any sort of pressure relief system at all?

[cosworth34677]

Yes its a magom mini pump I don't have a pressure relief valve hooked up to it I I never got a good answer from magom if I could use pressure relief valve and run the pump continuously at this point I'm willing to try because it doesn't seem that it would get any worse

[andyathome]

you could use motor bike shock oil, comes in a litre bottle and is quite cheap and about the right viscosity .

cheers andy

[cosworth34677]

Thanks for the help guys I think I'm going to use your guys if I can try to get this old excavator
running. I have two questions though where do I get a pressure release valve, and wheel bicycle 15-20 weight shock oil work as a hydraulic fluid.

I also cleaned up the insulation on the inside of the excavator kind of simplified it and I cleaned out some of parts that were in front of the fan that was inside of it that helped out a lot with the cooling but the thing still kind of moves slow and seems like is having trouble digging

[cosworth34677]

Hey guys I just going to give you an update on the excavator I got it running pretty good now I use your advice and changed out the oil using jack oil the bottle 15w and it's got stop leak in it....lol... that made it work better but the three big fixes were.....

I got new hoses they have a little bigger id. I think they are a true 3mm I.d. that was the big thing.

I slowed the motor down, it's now more one to one in the movement. And sounds alot better. And hot warm like a r/c buggy hot but not crazy hot.

And I took the valves to a friend of mine that work on cat excavators , he took the valves apart soaked the metal parts in cleaner over night and ran a small drill I bit in the passages. And replaced the orings he could, and gave it back, the little bugger works great now.

Even he said I need a check valve or pres sure relief valve so that's my next mission. But it's working good now. Now for some digging!!!