Nylint michigan crane conversion, hopefully

[trilliwilli]

Hi Frizzen,

For the Unit crane I have been searching for info and dimensions. I already found some dimensions in Smallhauls thread, and I have a servicemanual with valuable information.

I am missing some dimensions and was wondering if you could help me out, since I read you have done some measuring on the boom which is already very helpfull to me.

I need the following dimensions:
-width of the upperstructure
-length of the upperstructure over the centre ( from centre boom to centre counterweight)
-width of the enginebay behind the cab
-height of the upperstructure at the back (bottom carriage to top engine bay)

It is very nice to read all the conversions here from old toy cranes, but my only resource for a Doepke crane in Europe is Ebay, and the prices are no fun, let alone the shipping costs.

I am planning on building a Unit 614 completely myself in scale 1:14, so slightly bigger than the 1:16 Doepke crane.

Have you seen the videos from Jonathan W on Youtube about saving a Unit 614 from the woods. Its epic. This is the first of 12 videos:

https://youtu.be/4JWbQwhOMo0

Thanks in advance.

[9W Monighan]

We have some 1:1 Unit shovels at our outdoor show...Brownsville Pennsylvania National Pike show
I won't be down there till mid April or May though.

[frizzen]

Trilliwilli,
I sure can, but everything is in inches since that's how machine and toy were designed, and consider the rotation pivot measurement approximate since i'm still not ready to tear my Unit down for rc conversion

Doepke Unit 357 measurements

Crane house base height 1/4"
Crane house base width 6 1/8"
Crane house base length 8"
Crane house pivot to front of base 2 1/4"
Boom attach pin beyond front of base 7/16"
Boom attach pin above top of base 1"

Cab width 2 1/4"
Cab length 3 3/4''
Cab height 5"
Cab to gearbox 1 7/16"
Gearbox width 1"
Gearbox length 2 3/4"

Counterweight height including base thickness 1"
Engine cover width 3 1/4"
Engine cover height 3 1/4"
Engine cover length 3 5/8"

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I really like cranes


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Nylint T-24 Michigan crane

Crane house base width 6"
Crane house base length 8 1/2"
Counterweight height 4"
Cab height 5"
Cab width 1 3/4"
Cable drum area width 2 1/2"
Front of house to counterweight 5 1/4"

Does anyone know of an action figure that would make a good 'Man With The Yellow Hat' to drive Georges dragline?

[trilliwilli]

Originally Posted by 9W Monighan

We have some 1:1 Unit shovels at our outdoor show...Brownsville Pennsylvania National Pike show
I won't be down there till mid April or May though.

That is a nice offer. If I need some dimensions i can always ask. I have been searching for a Unit crane over here but it is difficult to find one. They are mostly scrapped, safety regulations makes it impossible to work with these old cranes without modifications. Due to COVID i haven't been able to visit an oldtimer event, nothing went thru due to restrictions.

@frizzen

Thank you so much for the effort and the info. Fortunately the Doepke crane seems to be very accurate at scale 1:16, so these dimensions are very useful.

For the calculations from 1:16 to 1:14 is no problem, and from inches to metric is also not a problem, I have to deal with that at work as well.

I can sketch a first outline now to see if all the dimensions are in relation to each other.

My interest comes from my father, he was operator on a Unit 1014 truck mounted crane back in the seventies. My grandfather owned two of these cranes. The upper structure of the 1014 (truckmounted) is the same as the 614(crawler), the 617(longer crawler, wider shoes) and the 357(wheelmounted), which is your version of the Doepke crane.

All these cranes can be converted from dragline, clamshell and hoist with the crane boom, and as cable hoe attachement or shovel attachement.

Most cranes in Europe were the 1014 model, because these were ex US army cranes, used by starting crane companies, or the licensed built Neal-Unit cranes from the UK.

[frizzen]

If you're aiming for a Truck or Crawler mounted Unit, you might want to change how you watch ebay. The parts cabs come up fairly often usually without some combination of a boom, drive chassis, and engine cover. Bumps a $200 toy to more like $30, and may help with shipping.

Let me know what other pictures and measurements you may need.

Probably seen it already, but Factory model vs Toy
http://www.constructioncollector.com...rial-Unit.html

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Since starting the project, i've had a couple people question if it was really done back then, so let's watch some vintage Dragline loading Dumptruck action

https://youtu.be/Bu07huOng60

[trilliwilli]

I have been looking for parts cranes as well, but there is still a pretty large shipping fee, often between $50 and $60, and because it comes from the US, I have to pay taxes as well.
That is another 21% over the sum, a $30 parts crane bcomes a $100 piece of still parts.

I think I also like to have a little bit more room in the model, and my truck is a Wedico, which is scale 1:14,5, so for now I am sketching the crane up as a scratch built, due to wetter and COVID restrictions I am sitting at home doing nothing, well outside my work that is.

If I need some more info I will ask, thanks for the great help so far.

[frizzen]

So some Jerry guy around here has been telling me for a while that WPL crawler B or C series aluminum axles are the right width for the crane carrier. Aluminum wheels, fill the tires with something. The spacing on tandems are even right.

Although apparently WPL-B truck frame width is a bit wider than the Nylint frame structure under here. It will likely need some flavor of Walking beam or Link & coil spring setup instead of Leaf. Smart guy could probably "mill' their frame cross members to width and see how that all fits. My big concern is how to get that suspension stout enough to not destabilize things, or require installing forward outriggers like real machine has.

I'm not even sure how much this machine already weighs, but it wasn't light just as a toy.

Maybe get a Gorilla or make a "Man with the yellow hat" to drive the rig?

So i did the right thing, and have been randomly focusing on several other beat up toys in the garage instead of getting parts for this shiny one in the living room... (Buying new furnace & ac stuff over the summer seemed more priority? That can't be right)

[jerry56]

I have been pondering the same thing....As you have said the structure under the crane is 2 or 3 mm to narrow, and way to high, I've been trying to figure out how to cut those two pieces down to about 1/2 inch high then bolt some aluminum angle to them, I think this will give us the correct width to bolt up the WPL running gear... But I haven't figured out how to get in there and cut those two pieces down because the body is in the way...any ideas..
I'm planning a walking beam for the rear adapted to a set of the WPL metal "see-saws" as they call them... I'm also trying to avoid front out riggers.... that really complicate things
For motors I'm either going to try 2 300rpm 370 gear motors (one for the front axle and one for the rears) or a single 80 turn 550 with a 3:1 gear reduction and just power the rears....
As for weight I'm betting once it's done it will be really close to 25lbs easy...

[frizzen]

As a quick & dirty idea, I'd thought about trying to directly adapt those crossmembers into the nylint?
Couple swipes with caliper to split the width difference, grind some off ends to fit up within the rails.

Probably mark the rails for height, chuck some abrasive cutoff wheel in the flex-shaft machine to rip them down to height. The real fun part would be drilling those for the mount hardware, as i don't have a 90 or 45 degree drill.

I dunno, really need to cobble together enough of a junk parts mockup chassis to play with.

[ddmckee54]

Frizzen:

I've got a set of WPL plastic axles that I bought to see if they'd look right under a Bruder, along with the aluminum wheels and the tires. They were too small, a 5-6mm difference in OD makes a HUGE difference. Anyway, I've got the steer axle, the center axle and the rear axle. The plastic axles and the metal axles will have the same dimensions. If you need any dimensions let me know and I'll get them for you.

Don

[jerry56]

I was thinking about a cutoff wheel on a dremel as well....it's about the only thing small enough to get in there.... but that is "real" steel in them thar Nylints.. so it might take some time....
As for drilling mounting hols I was just going to put them over the wheel assemblies front and rear I think there is enough room to drill 4 or so holes on each side where the sides come up to form the wheel wells
I think you would need to take off about 4.5mm.... Doing that to the plastic would be easy but a little tougher on the metal ones...and you still might have to cut the frame down...
I guess for the fronts you could use some aluminum angle but you would have to cut some of the frame away to keep the ride height the same.

[frizzen]

I know that a WPL / JJRC axle with the plastc D-chassis wheel is narrow enough it looks like it'd be the inner wheels of a dually. I still need to try ordering some aluminums. Do they have anything that's Dually or all just SuperSingles

All i've really gotten done on this for a long time was painting the Drag Bucket a higher viz color



Um, i like cranes...

[ddmckee54]

I've got the WPL "Off-road" tires and a dual set-up. I'll take some pictures and get some measurements tonight. They LOOK more like super-singles, but since I don't have any standard tires, I don't know how they'd fit on these rims.

Don

[jerry56]

Does this help
https://rctruckandconstruction.com/s...ad.php?t=13887
And yes WPL has duals....
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/32568...andl_shipto=US
These are narrower tires
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/22518...92773088%21recI have a couple 3d printed wheels that I put in more backspacing so they fit closer to the frame rails ...

[jerry56]

The metal axles and wheels with the narrow tires are 152mm outside to outside edge... the crane is 149 and change inside edge to inside edge.
I have a set of 3d printed wheels that are 137mm wide with lego wheels... I think I have a set for the WPLs too....I think

[frizzen]

It was pointed out to me that i didn't include several measurements from my Cable Drums...

1" rod stock, clean up OD
0.250 long shoulders at 1" OD
1.5" OAL
0.750" diameter cable bed (1/8" deep)
1" long cable bed
Center drilled for whatever mount system you're considering
Bonus points, Lightly score for alignment of servo horn OD or screw holes



Cable bed of spool is the last gear ratio of a cable machine, like changing tire height on a car.
Diameter x 3.14 = line pull per revolution. < 0.750" x 3.14 = 2.355" line per rev on base wrap >
Line pull per revolution x RPM (or look up Servo transit speeds, convert angle to 360...)
< 0.2sec @ 60 deg... 0.2 / 60 sec = 300, 60 deg transit = 6 per rev, 50 rpm = 117 inch of line per minute max speed > so i'm running channel EPA cranked way down.

Bigger spool = faster pull / less torque
Smaller spool = slower pull / more torque

Dragline fairlead (suggested prior art)
https://patents.google.com/patent/US3006608
I just use some redirect sheeves to catch and pull the crowd back inline to get through the boom in a Z path

[frizzen]

Jeepy84 over on SBG found these reference pics. Hopefully a mod can approve him to join over here...







Since the lid to counterweight/engine area has to come off for access, I couldn't come up with a good way to do the really cool house-side boom lifting structure. I'd thought about spanning the house side boom hoist sheeves out on a framework coming off the elevated bracket, but didn't think it would look cool enough
Their boom extension piece makes me wonder if the Doepke crane long/short extensions might fit? Also the pulley lifting block hooks

I really like that boom tip line control yoke, mine might need that extra plate with lightning holes.


A crane Jib-boom could be pretty useful to have too.

Mine hasn't made any changes since installing the bumper scotchlite
Still need to order front bumper pintle pin.
Build a house stand so i can work on the carrier...

But it's ok since there are never any meets, so the toys really don't matter, and i should probably just try to find adifferent hobby

[jerry56]

Those are great reference pictures... But looking at other pictures it looks like there were several ways the cabling was configured so I would think one is a correct as the others..
I know what you mean about shows... but there seems to be several out your way lately, I just enjoy building them so I'll probably stick with it for a while... may take a short break this spring to get the yard cleaned up and a small garden in but I'll come back to this...

[frizzen]

I know there "have been" some events in my area... I'm whining since it's really lame when the first you ever get to hear of a meet is sometime After it's Over.

Indianapolis, IN - toy contractor show that i only heard about because a friend into trains asked if it was our group doing the rc demonstration
Lebanon, IN - winter meet? couple weeks after it ended FrankSmith posts some videos from it on youtube
Lafayette, IN - there was a toy show? RC Dungeon had a thumbnail for a video tagged Lafayette In

Avon/Danville, IN - heard some rumors at 2 different local hobby shops that they thought there was a construction group out that way, but no solid details. The drift track thinks the guy who runs it is also with the Rock Crawlers, might be something.

[jerry56]

From now if I see something over on the book of faces I'll say something over here and not assume you heard about it