My first Lipo incident.

Supermario · #1 10-05-2014, 11:57 AM

I have a system or routine I always follow when I run my equipment in the backyard. When I'm done playing, I bring them into the basement one at a time and immediately remove the battery before going to get the next one.
A few days ago I had the dozer and hoe out. I brought the dozer in first. It was getting dark and for some reason I just put it on the table and went back out to get the hoe. I totally forgot to take the battery out of the dozer and left the Sabertooth powered for days! I opened up the dozer last night to play and that's when I discovered the battery still plugged in

Pulled it out, it's a little puffy and of course stone dead. My heart skipped as I thought, I'm lucky I didn't burn the house down!
I know that dropping a lipo or shorting, overcharge, can cause them to blow up. Can they be violent when run too far down?

I've now posted a reminder on the basement door that says "batteries".

Mario

Lil Giants · #2 10-05-2014, 01:48 PM

Yeah, I've done that more than once, left the switch on in the 850 & killed a 4s batt. I don't believe there is any concern with lipo fires from leaving a switch on, running the lipo completely dead. The risk is rather trying to recharge them again & everytime after that!

Lipos are pricy but compared to the damage they could cause if something goes wrong with recharging or during use

.... discard it & get a new one.

I use my .22 rifle to blow up my ruined lipos from a distance, then chuck 'em in the burning barrel.

I've had one burst into flames after shooting it, 3 or 4 others didn't do anything.

FlyingBeagle · #3 10-05-2014, 02:46 PM

One misconception I see a lot is that lipos blow up. Lipos don't explode, they just burn very rapidly. Make sure that there is nothing near a suspect Lipo that is combustible as the fire will be intense, but pretty localized.

The safest way I know of to dispose of a Lipo is by first discharging it all the way. I do this by running it down very far and then putting it in a bowl of salt water to completely discharge. This removes all of the stored energy so they become fairly benign. Once discharged you can puncture it safely. If you puncture a Lipo that still has a charge that is when you get the fireworks. And if it is fully charged it can be quite a show.

You can save a Lipo that has been completely drained by charging each individual cell slowly with a non computerized charger until they all meet your digital chargers minimum voltage requirement. Then balance charge from there. I agree with Joe above though that the future risks are not worth the money saved.

Cooper · #4 10-05-2014, 03:26 PM

No real concern for a lipo catching fire from being slowly depleted. As joe said 99.9% of lipo fires are caused by three main things

1). Damaged cell-sometimes you don't even know they are damaged by visual appearance.
2). Over charging-quickest way to create thermal runaway explosion in a lipo.
3). Over discharging beyond packs ability- basically demanding more output than the battery can manage.

Lipos are rather safe and a lot of misconceptions are out there. I would venture to say that all those incidents of people having a perfectly good battery blow up were actually having damaged cells but not realizing the damage. The swelling in a cell is from internal chemistry causing a gas to develop. And it's not really an explosion but a venting of gas, causing the runaway effect from a chemical reaction. They don't have any memory. They begin to degrade from the moment they are manufactured. No benefit of a lipo being cycled, actually will lesson the useful lifespan. Think of it like a lipo has a limited amount of cycles and if cycling them just because lack of use you are better off just making sure that are balanced and not a full charge for storage. They can be left a full charge for a week or so. There is absolute no proof from any manufacturer or creditable source that cycling a pack will promote better discharge curves. Except from the first few discharge cycles from new. That basically is just making sure the pack is functioning as designed. And every battery is different because the chemical reaction cannot really be quantified but rather a pretty accurate guess can be determined. That is one of the differences between more expensive packs that the manufacturer better matches the cells per pack. And another bit of info, our military is the ones to thank for most of the safe development that goes into lipo technology. Soon to be available to consumers the next generation of lipos, a battery can be skewered, cut, shot, severely damaged and still work (obliviously less than optimal and for a shorter duration) without creating excessive chemical reaction or thermal runaway. (Explosion/ fire).

And the potential for problems it's probably better to replace any damaged pack rather than put it to use. If I. Not mistaken an effective way to neutralize a lipo is in a bucket of saltwater. Or if you are still wanting to get your money's worth of enjoyment, target practice

. I always find some creative way of really pissing off my damaged packs to the of suicide!! I'm not much for safety stuff but really should not breath much of the aftermath.

.

doodlebug · #5 10-06-2014, 12:29 AM

Well......... better safe than sorry! I woke up yesterday for a night shift hauling wet batch concrete, to find out that the local fire chiefs house burned down. Just around the corner from where I live. Hmmm? scratching my head over that one.

Cheers, Neil.

1985 kenworth · #6 10-06-2014, 02:58 AM

Well lipos scare the crap out of me. And to me they are too much work to keep them working and alive and from not catching fire, and balancing cells ...etc. etc. no not for me ,that is why for now i will never use them besides i would not want to see one of my trucks catch fire ,people would see a grown man crying beside a big pile of plastic and aluminum

..i will stick to my nimh thank you

kaptain Jack · #7 10-06-2014, 09:15 AM

Thanks,Cooper. Very informative posting.

Supermario · #8 10-06-2014, 05:28 PM

Yes, thanks Ralph for sharing. I didn't mean to cause more lipo fear with my post. I too was scared of them at first but that's natural. We fear what we don't understand. Now that I have the right tools to monitor and charge them I'm much more comfortable with them. And learning a discharge only ruins the battery is nice to know. It was a 15$ battery and I like the target practice idea

The smaller size and packing a good punch is a real benefit when space is tight. My dump truck relies on a lipo. My loader, dozer , excavator, dump trailer. Without lipo, the whole fleet comes to a grinding halt.

Anyway, my 3 golden rules. Don't drop and keep secure, don't overcharge or overload, never leave the room when charging.....

Funny, those rules apply to pretty much all batteries.

Kaf343 · #9 10-06-2014, 05:59 PM

Mario, glad all worked out for you. Here is a video of my buddy's hobby shop that went up in flames when he left some lipo's charging unattended. And the fun really starts when the stored cases of nitro catch on.

http://youtu.be/lny_v13n-TQ

TRUCKMAKER · #10 10-06-2014, 06:29 PM

Wow that's not good, hope no one was hurt and he had insurance!

Kaf343 · #11 10-06-2014, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRUCKMAKER

Wow that's not good, hope no one was hurt and he had insurance!

No one was hurt, thank god. Not sure about insurance but he still has rebuilt that part of the shop.

fhhhstix · #12 10-06-2014, 08:03 PM

I know of 4 LiPO fires firsthand 3 were geniuses trying to revive a LiPo that had been over discharged and the 4th was a car at the track that was over geared. The 4th one did burn fast enough to make it more of an explosion it almost blew the body off the car.

With care and common sense LiPo’s can be safe but these days when money is involved common sense goes out the window.

up9018 · #13 10-06-2014, 11:12 PM

I run a Lithium-Ion battery in all of my trains. (18.5v @ 6000mah) It is a permenant install and doesn't get unplugged. It also gets charged on board. Been in there for 3 years now without an issue.

One key thing to remember about Lithium Batteries...DON'T BUY CHEAP!

Cooper · #14 10-06-2014, 11:45 PM

Here were some lipos that were getting a good work out, four 5amp 5s batteries, two wired in series to run two motors on 10s. Runs for about three min and pulls 400+ amps total. Both 10s batteries got completely soaked and the fe rx battery too. Silicone gel and baggies for a few days and still in use from two years ago. Yes they are quality batteries and well taken care of. Well they get worked hard, and on the way out as of lately but served a very good span.
http://youtu.be/Db25LO1IjIM

Cooper · #15 10-06-2014, 11:49 PM

Wish I had some videos of fires and esc/battery in sealed hull that creates good explosion but camera never running when the good stuff happens

. But the other toys that I have using lipos within there intended safe operating ranges I have never had any problems. Ever throw a 9v in the trash? That not good either.