360l Hydraulics Upgrade

[Tkelleher]

After several years of various Bruder conversions, two years ago I purchased a 360l excavator. I really enjoy it, but recently I’ve noticed a problem which looks like the valves are leaking internally, so for example to curl the bucket, I also have to move the dipper arm and the general hydraulics seem slow. Anyway I’ve decided to run a few upgrades on it and want to invest in the best option for a new pump, pressure valve, filter and 5 way valve block for some additional attachments. But I’m not sure of the best option for same. I would like to have the most realistic and fluent operation, so has anybody have experience of a similar upgrade and the best kit available for same? Thanks.

[Rimrock]

To keep initial purchase cost of the machines relative low, the chineese generally uses soft steels, brass or aluminum combined with as few gaskets as possible in their valves and pumps. The service life will naturally be less than the more expencive brands made of harder materails, closer tolerances and with proper gaskets all around. I've upgraded a couple of 4200xl, and some other low cost machines, all with Premcaon hydraulics that is at the high end of the scale. All hardened valve blocks and hydraulic pumps of industrial grade, not toy grade. The valves have a more realistic smooth feel to them then the low grade valves which often feels more 'on/off'. (for smaller excavators/wheel loaders there are some less expencive good quality options from Magom and Lesu, but for the relative large machines as 360L and 4200xl I only go for Premacon)
There is no particular packages for upgrades, one have to pick the components one by one. I recommend their largest pump, 1200 ml. In addition one find the pressure valve, filter, 5 way block + servoes and brackets. The chineese uses a hard grade of hoses in their machines which I have experienced can be quite a pain to connect to the fittings. One can concider also to get some of the Premacon 4mm hoses which are of a softer and more user friendly grade, put still strong enough. Adviceable to use 6mm hose on the intake line tank to pumpe for best flow. One can re-use most of the existing fittings, might need some more but it all depends how one install the equipment. Can be handy to get some T-connections (need at least one for the pressure valve,optional one for manometer), endplugs, new gaskets for the existing fittings (Premacon gaskets are thicker and softer than the thinner chineese gaskets, otherwise the fittings rc4wd vs premacon are the same) In additon Loctite 542 is highly advised to put on the threads of all fittings. Oil grade 22 is used, same as rc4wd.
(NB! One might come over a pump from Magom that looks similar as Premacon, at at lower cost. The pump unit it self is the same but the motor and gearing is not proper designed at the Magom pump causing overheating problems in my experience)

[Actros4160]

Rimrock,

I agree with your comments about the upgrade to this type pump and valve blocks. I recently board a pump 1000ml mini pump with tank from this fellow,which is the main supplier for Premacon. https://www.modellhydraulik.com/. The pumps are industrial grade not toy grade pumps. SMC M-Series has this type fitting which Premacon uses as well.
https://content2.smcetech.com/pdf/M.pdf

[Rimrock]

Originally Posted by Actros4160

Rimrock,

I agree with your comments about the upgrade to this type pump and valve blocks. I recently board a pump 1000ml mini pump with tank from this fellow,which is the main supplier for Premacon. https://www.modellhydraulik.com/. The pumps are industrial grade not toy grade pumps. SMC M-Series has this type fitting which Premacon uses as well.
https://content2.smcetech.com/pdf/M.pdf

I can defently see the resemblance to the ones Premacon got, and those compact ones are pretty interesting for smaller models. I mean I have seen one of them including the tank in the newest Fumotec excavator, PC290. Looks like they don't offer valve blocks yet.
Is that a 360 or 4200xl you have used the 1000 ml? If so how is the speed of the cylinders compared with the original pump?

[Actros4160]

I have not installed the pump yet in my Wedico Cat 345 but will as soon the show next weekend is over. I always been a little disappointed with the speed when you use two valves in the same time from the speed of the Leimbach sytem for the excavator but it came with it. If you compare 380ml with 1000ml there will be a different. How much I will see. I will keep you posted.

Bernd

[Tkelleher]

Thanks all for the feedback. I had already the shopping cart ready to go with the Premacon kit, but its expensive and i just wanted to be sure i was going the right direction. I dont mind as long as its worth it.

So i also plan to add lights, sound and a few more bits. I will start a new thread in the next few weeks on the upgrades as they get delivered and added.

[Lil Giants]

My Fumotec 490 hoe came with a Kampshoff design (same place Premacon sources their pumps) brushless motor w/gear reduction & 4003 Jung pump (0.45ml/revolution), and 14mm piston bores I found it too quick & springy to operate. I downsized to the 4002 (0.30ml/rev) with the motor rpm @6500 puts it right around 450ml/min & the fluent movement with 3 valves in motion is right where I like it.

Bernd, is the ID of the hose on the Wedico model 2mm? No matter how much fluid you throw at it, the hose might be too small... you might need to replumb to 2.5/4mm fittings & hose.

[Tkelleher]

After a few months I finally ordered and received the pump, valve block, filter and pressure valve & gauge from Premacon today. Also a few other upgrade bits like some buckets, quick release, stone guard, sound module, lights and rear gps beacons etc.

So on the replacement hydraulics, is there a best practice way to plumb all this for it to work best?. I do notice that in the original design there seems to be a pressure valve on the flow and return from the valve block.

[jack van]

have a question should there be some sort of gasket between hydralic pump and the valve block ?