Crawler Track Build - American HC230

[Pricer]

Is this a reasonable way to design a crawler track tumbler for a scale model? Is cast-able resins strong enough to make this part? 3D printing? Any ideas will be appreciated. I did order a track shoe that is 3D printed and a few boom parts. I am hoping they will make good master patterns for casting resin. The only thing better than first hand experience is someone who has already experienced it.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kaqluhNqZ9IDT1UDXn5V19j69rNDM3uSK48eY8L245U=w800-h355-no

[Jared]

I'm sure the tumbler would work but I think your cross bars should be bigger and the lugs on the pads smaller if required. What connects the pads to one another? Welcome to the forum and I'm always glad to see someone building a crawler crane.

[Rvjimd]

Seems like a good enough plan to start and see how it goes. Tom will likely chime in on this one, he cast the pads for his shovel and it works great.

I know from my aluminum pads experience that the hinge points need to be nearly perfect so you don't get a twist or a left or right bow in them when they are pinned together. This will cause alignment issues and they will catch or try to work off to one side of the tumblers.

Jim

[modelman]

Pricer-this is a unique idea for tumblers but I don't think it would work cast from resin because of the size of your round bars. They probably would break. I cast some track pads from epoxy resin mixed with a hi-density filler and it worked great. A cast tumbler might work if you re-design. Maybe use a double tumbler but make two separate drive dogs where each one would engage a tumbler. Just my opinion. Jim made an important point about the hinges. You learn a lot after you try something and that makes it all worthwhile.

[Pricer]

Thanks guy's for the welcome and the advice. I have been thinking about how to put a metal insert into a casting mold to help make the part more durable yet retain the details that casting can offer.

I did get my crawler track shoe in from the 3-D printer to discover I basically drew the part upside down....... LOL. So I made the corrections and will order two tracks in order to make sure they work well together before making the silicon mold.

I am not familiar with any additives to put in the resin to make it stronger. Any direction with that would certainly be appreciated at this stage of it all.

I think I will add metal pins to the silicon mold that can be removed once the part has solidified. This may keep me from having to drill out the holes for the pins I am thinking.

I had even thought about brazing a solid brass wire to 1/8" brass tubing and using the steel pins in the mold to hold them in alignment to set into the mold prior to casting the part.

The double tumbler/dogs sounds like an excellent idea!

I am wondering if that could work on a cast tumbler as well. It would make the part stronger I think but I am not sure. De-lamination of the materials could be possible but if a center hub made from metal could be used in the casing jig/mold I think adding other solid wire structures that extend from the hub outward to the edges of the tumble could be useful if it would work.

I am going to try the idea of the track parts as well as the boom connectors and see where the idea leads me. The biggest fun of all of this to me is in figuring it out. The ends results are fun to see, but I am afraid I would want to begin a new project at that point and in short order too.

Thanks again for all of the responses. I will try to get some pictures posted of some of my projects very soon. I have made various parts for an American HC230, American 11320 and one crawler track side frame for a Manitowoc 21000 as well as some test pieces for experimentation.

[Pricer]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/zieLyOOdS2fNTwdSGJzZsU0ncVh5h10Qyo3lftxFO7ctQlSN5T QHXVsh928HXx5SPrOssUGzlb5ETnhf-7s-sKIxD62vkLWX6i8ukVGcB95nG_gxA_aWYIk2JZpZQlfON6r14z p1QsVtlr1UTiyP6Ar8O7u3FcPdG5nJcYy9QKIsZspDCC9qyqD8 bYPwWCOdalQtka_di6bUfMhM5MTeuXcnmlEE1aZaxiJmBNeCvY arHSaTaNIEQYpixjnc4R4kx_iTmdsWIzrTnZbpnTHqDO9Xrwmp AuPtl56Hrn8zy4UG_wyc7ldWbIvgd5QQ1L93JD3ijsuOgY7iX9 vRX-OSlSS_ewQ9HSduJ4AUlG0wW197ZMxJeeiBfVJGibc-tVUQp15SUQbFF7YClLfC-UDRjJ8AVSc2xf5zQ0GyUxB483Ta-GBAX3Fxk-NRChC99zZcogmj_39A9vfwFwLM8LPsmS-D8QEp-ZwUQVwKWnTmoYe-12UJRRLDvgx_S-5V2ZM1KQLs4cDDnq40ttkn7hVNH3o=w993-h620-no

[speedy8305]

I too am making a crawler crane a Manitowoc 18000 here on the forum i started milling the crawlers from alum. after i finished designing them but i am manual milling so its a slow going process

[Pricer]

I too am making a crawler crane a Manitowoc 18000 here on the forum i started milling the crawlers from alum. after i finished designing them but i am manual milling so its a slow going process

I have been watching your progress. It looks like an interesting build. There is certainly a wealth of knowledge to be found on this site relating to crawler tracks. I have a couple of projects moving forward myself. I am currently working through a few scaling issues with my 11320 this morning. Looks like my lower for this on is on the small side of lining up with the upper. I am thinking there must be some interpretation issues from on CAD program to another. It's always something. LOL but still fun nonetheless.

I have been working on drawings for the Manitowoc MLC650 for almost a year now. I built a few test hoist (Boom Hoist) with some success. Right now I am focused on the 11320 and the HC230 American's.

Best of luck to you in your build and I look forward to keeping an eye on your progress. Looking good so far. What scale are you building the 18000 in?

[Pricer]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/eX55SBjt0j9uDToyZ0wDlJ-vZoD9gbkD_9flnDKgYHRYqkGaMBZKUfPxj77st63spAvZ2r-DbEgFCgbRMQl7GYJ-uGOI2Bps9ZLJsHNks0ptlfFC2VjR0YRQkUGPrj0muW2n0FGDpp ibd1-ohfX9sJn2fJSTqT1gQYS6pi7BWodjauS3YxOGK3dWtNA6b5PMA j2e2uihBnfo1x_I5073tiRljyfwld5t9yaFVo4gFk4Zuwolvmt 029CYPvravBOb9F5mhfIAud1I7GHmF9rWeiZudPucapWZYCOCz O7dHzyuNlrWS1nx-0RapWKn68i3MhZlQJ3NpGLdXDt1Gnti9gSHLBkeY-Ai7Va9fh-qLDDtvCKitEcTaT8f4JMY6gmGayoPgC0KQqsYA5aokIfnEt1kB nv5rxx_218dnMcHaWri-s6pNS9ka1X40ZJY7O19YErAYbv1sTCCL4RaKrkHZjvqQQpZQrk 617imUfUO91CvEq1I__FGN-6LbJNAOcARPHCthe9pcj3lfxgNJy4CZmw=w992-h619-no

Here is a picture of the idea I had for resin casting over a brass structure. I tried posting it yesterday but for some reason it didn't work. Here is another try.

[Pricer]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NSm0WLJ64lJbIEtVHdMj5E4VuNW0EFepv3A7A3IrdHan6wbgmE 5Xl938JSpCPcdMEmtp8sQpP5KWRlHI6B89VCAE9CGsR2VaQ6h1 W9vEVX91zP2YGU7ADs9L747NL_5iD5QLlFLyxoVxRp_l6juTll 49OL4vOAVhEFsGEIEo0CRTgOxvE4ptxz64_CYHBahezIsw6ELO TgwR8Sdntw5fpGldXvg6HRJjnfB7wiLWLKtlm9c5y5pKVke4L1 UxIatf3g0unDgIT2tYNS-bvI6qwhs0Oxgbnyn3L1652e6BUoAgCrin-KGUVxlanoYr3sPpSBZkPQsWQLxh_iKQTvVr_Fh82eBoI1l1TrN mbvDfwqvHIziF7OgZ5e41Qh6DsC6RuPa0XfRMIyo7IGi_wIFlM 98msbFR4ofPBYX_XKso8WsTjEKVuRiMFCu4lr15UYjl0h_fKek nf-uBsheNsQnFXuoyvO5hGHkP2vSX39LOI_XB1ydigk4IlWFRZ__q YCUTTrw16qMHxwyWlgrGkRYZKg0=w1260-h619-no

Here is a drawing of the resin/Brass structure jig in the bottom part of a two part mold. I am still waiting on 3D parts to be shipped to be used as mold masters. If anyone has any ideas or experience with this I would appreciate any advice I can get prior to getting started. Thanks

[Pricer]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/N1I2VUyDhXbcvDR36iY1SN6F7wKaIq3wlON20DDJff2sjIrKsO hn_Gg33uCkfop64GN4YD-OHsI_J-3UDsmxP2BaRY3Mty4vtHyxintkQc3-xqi0HurDaREt95vPk6YddHqQaBaU2ybvEd7HVm57BpcKPnhP_J fq4rG99ABbOCOj9KI84misKsWJZ8YATl87xBisz6GPUpiKN5Vo ZNUED9PFqnadan58mOthZ6Qy3lrKm0jgMKqVQ6LzYzN5AceVzB S_uNV722WUHJfCMPbqeztd3NMQqRhCRJsM5GEc_fXbEP6_ZwaB djaE6z_f_R1Ya-vPmefxsTYAZWzM5CGQpNazu3gJ6HgSq3lqEI1f3ZdnuVublbwy 45_ceTHMaQOexUKJxM41qL8GeA2ehtE1qpDGSBedp03oIHyhs0 Y_9ttQMuGRnRk7Kbg_WgabHH1mYW9Pk7rNYKPHvIEYWIJAoDoN CgStCmzSeHHaL93TLmUmeh9xxeLDvetT-8jMwwc3AGrn0W4gSgadDH-boDWOKqw=w798-h748-no

Resin Casting over brass tubing frame idea. 3D print a master pattern of the finished tumbler, make silicon mold of master, build brass tube frame, jig the brass tube frame in the silicon mold, add casting resin to mold, remove finished part. Additional part details could be added to the 3D printed part (i.e. Bolts, curved openings, letter, numbers.) to bring the part to life.

Just an idea, one of which I am working towards.

[Pricer]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GEsLgYwp7g_HSg54CaUWIvQWmOCqiEhmzu8AiBHbgCQvfaDq4p hutlaKAvSzhrt5zeKNT6IkFYXc2rZF6Nx21IC58Aipu1vyK2z0 Z0xnyfeuqu3fa3CeC5942T-gx00dhFkp9LNwyrG6SC3sDIvw91qSIUXXQHfeKzBPgi7TY7_bg 3tfzZs1bdwOGmdV-82mFHFadTtFDMK9Y1vt15G7n-aWrFMSahOcRCkGzOiJCaIWExXDgYBpDSDkjAZLosiSG6QJd0zz Mym84eBBNIo5atN00tecIcGWRovXWssPFVZb8N4NNwkNTII8TJ RZ8PZDXJLLf2ir0ZvIO_Du9LED7-wqGcHm5f3Ky7oah39w3Wy25D1CuQqcdQ2PU4jkz1qJ-fLTjXES8Itbk1aygbkc1nPU7m6XpG0yiHG4roDbI0BxFHcAUUD Yrp50DK99npBHM4YjU2MzCZ-F4EB-vx9NQc7-RD6coY8TfPcow6fqAaWPYeM7lHpZls1kOwRbqiJvfOL9FvDpdT baibIc0-PdpZ0=w1238-h764-no

Part shown in the De-molding stage for illustration.

[speedy8305]

My 18000 is going to be in 1/16 i used a scale conversion to get all the measurement ratio and i will definitely be watching this build as well and as far as the guys on the site they are all very helpful, talented and a wealth of knowledge all around you.

[modelman]

Pricer-I cannot see the pictures you have posted. You may need to use Photobucket. It is a free hosting site. Here is a filler that will do the job for you when casting parts-
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2034&nobot_crawl
I don't know where you are located but there are a lot of west systems dealers around the country. I would also suggest using the west systems epoxy. It is good stuff. The more filler you use the stronger the part will be but it needs to be thin enough to pour freely into the molds. You may have to experiment to get the correct resin to filler ratio.

[Pricer]

I will look into the photo bucket. Can you see the pics I have attached? I think there are a few boat supply businesses in my area that sell West Systems. Is West Systems stronger than Alumilite? I am at the beginning of the learning curve when it comes to casting. I did purchase an Alumilite Casting Kit.

[Pricer]

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/IronGuardian52/Resin%20Cast%20Tumbler%20Hybrid%202_zpssbifmwrn.jp g

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/IronGuardian52/Resin%20Cast%20Tumbler%20Hybrid%202%202_zpslytmooj v.jpg

[Pricer]

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/IronGuardian52/Track%20Shoe%20Hybrid%202_zpsiodhpc9t.jpg

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/IronGuardian52/Track%20Shoe%20Hybrid%202%202_zpsao0cw7uf.jpg

Can you see theses? From Photobucket

[doodlebug]

Yes!

[modelman]

Pricer-starting at post #16 I can see the pictures but nothing before that. I am not familiar with alumilite. I am not understanding the mold you have pictured. That is a very complex part. Can you make that model to mold from? That will not be a simple pour mold. The way that is pictured I think it will have to be some type of injection molding.

[Pricer]

Pricer-starting at post #16 I can see the pictures but nothing before that. I am not familiar with alumilite. I am not understanding the mold you have pictured. That is a very complex part. Can you make that model to mold from? That will not be a simple pour mold. The way that is pictured I think it will have to be some type of injection molding.

The picture I posted with the part in the "blue" mold only shows half of the two part mold, keep in mind, all of this is in theory to me, I have no experience in actually molding.

The master part to make the mold would most likely, in my case, be 3D printed. The 3D printed part would be a representation of the finished part of coarse and when the mold is ready for casting, the brass structure will be inserted in the mold on a steel shaft and spaced evenly before attempting to cast any resin.

I have watched a few video's that Alumilite has made regarding making various parts with two part molds which also included molding around threaded metal parts which were unfastened after the resin had cured leaving a threaded hole. It also showed how to cast around a hex nut which would be in bedded in the cast part. The bolt actually is sticking through the side of the mold prior to casting the part.

I have also seen a video that shows how to make several holes in the mold to let air escape when pouring a complex part. In the case of my crawler shoe, casting it around the actual pin I will use in my model, it gives me a good alignment and hole size right out of the mold ( in theory that is....lol)

I may be totally off track hear with all of this but I believe it is worth a few try's before throwing in the towel. (I have a box full of those towels too).

I also saw a video of someone who made a production mold for fishing lures and they also used an injection method. Basically what I saw was that they used a large syringe to force the resin through the mold.

Any thoughts and input concerning any of this will be greatly appreciated. I have not ordered my 3D printed tumbler yet. I am still working out my plans in CAD and 3D drawings before I spend the money.

Thanks

[modelman]

Pricer-the blue mold you have pictured for your track pads looks simple enough and should work just fine. The tumbler is the nightmare to me. I would not ever try to cast a part like that. And yes, air is always a problem with a pour mold. Vent holes will only do so much. You may need a shaker table but with a part that complex I think injection molding is the only way. This is a very interesting project and I wish you good luck. And like you said, trying things is how you learn so I say go for it!!

[Pricer]

Pricer-the blue mold you have pictured for your track pads looks simple enough and should work just fine. The tumbler is the nightmare to me. I would not ever try to cast a part like that. And yes, air is always a problem with a pour mold. Vent holes will only do so much. You may need a shaker table but with a part that complex I think injection molding is the only way. This is a very interesting project and I wish you good luck. And like you said, trying things is how you learn so I say go for it!!

Thank you very much for the encouragement. I am thinking this will be difficult to say the least. The only information I have found so far had to do with pouring a sculpture over a much simpler wire frame. Maybe the inner frame will need to be made thinner or, maybe the tumbler can be made in the same overall finished state by making the part by casting thinner slices or sections of the part and also done in such a way to index one slice to the other. Maybe even doing it in a one piece open top mold. Something new to think about any way. Maybe even cast in some threaded holes too and use a long set screww or threaded rod to hold the slices together.

[modelman]

Pricer-I just noticed you are in mobile Al. I am just up the road a few hundred miles in north Al. Unless you just want a challenge, why don't you consider re-designing your tumblers. I don't know what scale you are building but why not just make-2-flat tumblers for each end-maybe 1/4" thick and make any kind of design on it you want and pour them in a flat-2- pc. mold. The double tumblers would drive the double drive dogs like you have pictured in your mold. I don't know the weight of your model but the tumblers cast from epoxy should be strong enough. Keep it simple. Just my opinion.

[speedy8305]

hey Pricer I made a mistake when I responded to your question the scale of my crane is set to be 1/14 not 1/16

[Pricer]

Pricer-I just noticed you are in mobile Al. I am just up the road a few hundred miles in north Al. Unless you just want a challenge, why don't you consider re-designing your tumblers. I don't know what scale you are building but why not just make-2-flat tumblers for each end-maybe 1/4" thick and make any kind of design on it you want and pour them in a flat-2- pc. mold. The double tumblers would drive the double drive dogs like you have pictured in your mold. I don't know the weight of your model but the tumblers cast from epoxy should be strong enough. Keep it simple. Just my opinion.

I like that idea. I am curious as to how strong epoxy is and I look forward to testing it. Simple is good.

[Pricer]

hey Pricer I made a mistake when I responded to your question the scale of my crane is set to be 1/14 not 1/16

1:14 scale sounds good. It will certainly be a big one when you get it completed. Will it be a static model or are you going to power it up?

[speedy8305]

the idea is to power it up got the drive, turntable motors and have extra motors possibly for the drums

[Pricer]

Do you have any ideas on how to put the motor in the drum?

[speedy8305]

Trial and error lol

[Pricer]

Trial and error lol

When you get to that point let me know. I spent a few months experimenting of a boom mounted hoist for a Manitowoc MLC 650 model I wanted to build and may get back to some day. Hiding the motor in the drum can be tricky as I am sure you know.

[speedy8305]

yea there is another forum where I was watching a gentleman build a 1/14 scale liehberr 540 and he hid the motor in the drums.

[Pricer]

Which forum was this?

[speedy8305]

http://www.modell-baustelle.de look for the liebherr 540 post