Nylint michigan crane conversion, hopefully

[frizzen]

Gentlemen,
I've been playing with rock crawlers over at scale 4x4 rc for a long time. Reccently while i was bored I ran across videos of Little Giants construction digging out his basement on youtube again. I thought that looked like fun, ventured back into the rc ag & industrial forums and started finding out that hydraulic models are in 'cubic dollars' so maybe not fun after all...

Then i saw 'the stuff' and 'small haul' converting doepke Unit cranes and Tonka dump trucks and saw a more affordable entry into this world. Old toys and servos being massively cheaper than hydro, this could work. Cable machines are cool and have more visible stuff moving around and i don't have to worry about rivet counters telling me my build is wrong since it's a toy.

So i started by finding my 1990s 1930s nylint dumptruck, and scaling up a papercraft crane i found on a japanese site, then began making it in brass.

http://i.imgur.com/gKRbn5dh.jpg

While working on it i ran across a 1955-56 Nylint Clark T-24 Michigan Crane which saves a ton of time vs rolling my own. I noticed a couple guys on here have converted these already so i'm hoping i can steal some knowlege.

http://i.imgur.com/jgn9bCPh.jpg

Right now i'm wanting to build 3 cable drums and slew, build a dragline bucket. i'd like to eventually add drive and steer and maybe lighting.

[Stuff]

Awesome! another crane!

here is what I used to get the main part to swing.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/ANTheStuff/RC/-Unit%20Crane/2016-01-31%2017.56.08_zps7xo8nlcb.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/ANTheStuff/RC/-Unit%20Crane/2016-01-31%2017.56.15_zps3tzmlxxv.jpg

All my pics of conversion here - http://s15.photobucket.com/user/ANTheStuff/library/RC/-Unit%20Crane?sort=4&page=1

[Rvjimd]

Here is a link to a video I just put together with some of the pictures of my NyLint conversion.

http://youtu.be/h_wDThHiDg4

I thought this was a pretty good conversion candidate. Lots of room in this cab for everything you will need to put in there.

You can find my conversion thread that I made, but all of my photos were lost and the thread is pretty lacking without them :o

http://www.rctruckandconstruction.com/showthread.php?t=9350

Jim

[frizzen]

Thank you very much, i was hoping i'd be able to get more pics of your build! I apologise in advance for the amount of questions i'm going to ask of everyone.

Is there a good way to access the counterweight section, or are you just working through the windows?
Were your pulleys for crowd and boom elevation home made or production?
What diameters did you find work best for the winch drums? I saw a few sizes.

So is the crane house just resting on the plastic swing gear, or is there a bearing setup other than just the pivot?

[Rvjimd]

Getting into the counterweight part of the crane was my first issue.

There are spot welds around the top of the "lid". I drilled out the welds and the lid can be removed for really good access. This makes a great conversion in my opinion because of all the space. Be careful removing the lid and you will be able to use it as a removable lid to change batteries. I run two separate lipo batteries as well as lead counterweight and there is plenty of room for all of it.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/004048fd36c21ef8e35a9cd30d2faf2d_zpstj1i8fvt.jpg

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/c20ad58cda7085f9e5a2ba0cd8ba48c9_zpsdhyhnml7.jpg

I made all the rope drums for mine on the little unimat lathe. it works good on hoist and drag/crowd drums to make the diameter as large as possible and still let you "stack" the servos together. I made the boom drum pretty small diameter thinking I didn't want it to move fast. You could use that approach on the hoist if you were planning to do lots of heavy lifting but I don't think it matters much. I think this part of the conversion is more about making the servo mounts work well and easy to install, then make the drums.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/8479cd8316431130602d95ad7360eeb7_zps99xjxxef.jpg

Here is a pic of the pulleys I made for the boom required for dragline configuration. I really want to make a fairleed but haven't done it yet. You could probably just run the drag rope out thru a small hole in the front of the cab without the two pulleys. They way I have these keeps the drag rope from riding on the cab.

The house is simply sitting on top of the plastic gear. I don't even have a retaining nut to hold it down. Here is a picture of the truck chassis and the slightly different version on my custom crawler base.

When you detach the house from the truck, carefully grind off the top of the stud to leave the stud attached to the truck, and as long as possible.

On the truck, I did drill and tap the stud and add a cap washer and screw to hold it together. This way if someone picks up the house it won't separate from the truck.

Here is the crawler version, I enlarged the hole and made a large post/stud to mount to the crawler base. This has a small center hole to hold the slip ring needed for power transfer to the tracks. My plan was to mod the truck to match so I could move the crane back to the truck if I wanted.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/d107066bab69decb71a9256d34d4a025_zpsw8pmhltz.jpg

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/0ce9f42d5d4075d589f9d793734df3ca_zpsntz9khzu.jpg

Feels like I have hijacked your build thread, sorry:o

Jim

[frizzen]

I don't think it's a hijack at all, i asked you for advice. If you'd prefer i can ask all kinds of questions over in your build thread.

Awesome i hadn't figured out if it was spotwelds or tabs yet. Those pics are really helpful.

It's not really a build thread yet, all i've done on the crane is string it, start straightening a few things, and fix the outriggers. I'm planning, and gathering advice and ideas, and um making motor noises while playing with it. You guys have done the hard work i'm just going to steal whatever ideas i can.

[Rvjimd]

Glad to help, we can continue here, fine with me. And, let's make this a build thread, get to work, I can't wait to see another dragline moving dirt! :p

Jim

[frizzen]

Well that's embarassing, the back fell off.

http://i.imgur.com/qVMOVm9h.jpg

Spot welds on mine weren't as clean as yours

___

if you follow my lead, you NEED to add a screw hole in the cab before removing this. walkway side of the cable drum window. there is no tack weld there and the lid is structural.

[Rvjimd]

Cool, glad to see you working on it!

I was able to drill and tap the stud on the truck (5th wheel). Then I made a simple thrust washer to slip over the stud to hold the house on the truck.

Keep at it, I thought it was fairly easy to convert and the hi tec servos that I used are really easy and stable conversions to continuously rotating servos.

Jim

[frizzen]

So far im just thinking i'll start off with a 1/4'' id bushing over the stock pin, and open up the crane house a little. Maybe tap a hole into the pin for a washer or bearing to keep the house connected. Need to pick up a slew gear to figure out height.

What kind of servos do you guys reccomend?
I know one of you guys used tower MG996R, those are out of stock everywhere i've seen.
I've seen some using hs-645mg like i run in my crawlers, but thats a $30 servo to need 4-5 of, it was a $40 chassis...


For the truck i'm figuring it's gonna drive a little, dig a lot. So i can probably wimp out some on that part. 2 channel cheap servo and esc. I may try to find/make some springs later on, bushings and bearings would be good to add, but it's already had 60+ years without them.

Since i've got a 1955/56 with the best steering setup of any of them, i'm probably just gonna roll with most of that as is and just mount up a servo to it.

I'm thinking i may try to cobble up a way for drive off an old screwgun in my scrap pile. It's a nice planetary reduction. Probably going to try for both rear axles powered. Maybe eventually throw some better axles under it.

I really like the 'but it's a toy' vibe it has so far, and i'm not having much luck finding anything out about the Clark T-24 Michigan Crane to make more detailed.

[Rvjimd]

I like the 645MG, they convert to 360 rotation really well. Some Futaba servos have the pot on the circuit board and are not to friendly for the conversion.

Take some good pics of the chassis conversion, I still have not done mine.

Jim

[frizzen]

I figured out my trucks steering throw being off had to do with a couple bent linkages, and straightening up the steering shaft got a whole lot more throw now. Also straightened up the bumper, took the lid off the cab.

Do you guys think it'd look better keeping the stock steering wheel that turns with wheels, or delete that in favor of easier setup and more scale look?

Yeah you're probably right on the servos, i just didn't know if any of the other cable machine operators had suggestions. If they convert easy and have a wide deadband, it beats cheap and creepy.

[frizzen]

Random stuff.
http://ccmodels.com/shop/michigan-t-24-conversion-kit/ was available 2009 for $325. Looks like it had crawler tracks, dragline bucket, main boom extension, secondary boom, grapple claw, a bent boom, extra top rigging, third crank drum... in brass, based off michigan factory info. And to be helpful it's! not available, and the pictures are ms-paint.

Truckmaker was kind enough to tell me his trucks aftermarket boom extension was 15" OAL, pin holes 14_3/4 centers. He also shared some detail pics.

It looks like they designated t-24 for truck mounted, c-24 for crawler. And i'm not having much luck learning about the cranes, or the michigan company, or clark who bought them, but there's some goofy looking bird that shows up in every search.

[frizzen]

Making cable drums is really slow with a redneck lathe setup, so i broke it more instead.

http://rsmg.pbsrc.com/albums/v413/frizzen/Mobile%20Uploads/20160219_170030.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip

http://rsmg.pbsrc.com/albums/v413/frizzen/Mobile%20Uploads/20160219_165932_1.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip

The cab roof is 4 spotwelds, 2 inboard side, 2 outboard. The steering support has 3 spotwelds and a joggle through a slot in floor. Steering wheel is brazed onto a splined shaft, if you want to keep steering shaft intact the cab would have to come off frame.

[frizzen]

I looked at a bunch of pictures, and made some guesses, and started to cobble up a dragline bucket out of stuff i had on hand so I could play around with the mechanics of it. Brass sheet thats too thin, hollow tube, and some electronics solder...

BUT I think it's acting about like it should and once the rigging is done in chain i might be onto something. (I started before i saw the patent drawings to copy, but it should work on soft loose stuff.)

http://i.imgur.com/Py2Xf8ah.jpg

Prototypes aren't pretty.

http://i.imgur.com/BFrXiW5h.jpg

Also started setting up for hoist and crowd drum servo mounts, and working toward getting steering servo in.

[frizzen]

next up, i took some 0.063" aluminum 2024 t3, and graph paper. I think this is a good start on side panels for a boom extension. That's the longest i could fit on 8.5x11 paper, i can post up template if anyone wants. Planning to make an even longer mid-boom just because i've got some longer aluminum. This one will put my boom reach at 32" once complete.

http://i.imgur.com/ShU8XvTh.jpg

Then some brass stock turned into a windshield wiper and side mirror.

I really should try to get back to making drums soon so i can get back to servo mounts...

[frizzen]

I've been looking at servo accessories, trying to to come up with the easy way to do this instead of needing a lathe.

On servocity I've stumbled across 'servo shaft hubs' which are a splined 0.5" shaft and one end of the winch drum. Or they have 'servo shafts' that are just a shaft in 0.5 or 0.375 with the spline drive. I can probably fab up the other side plate, tap/die, and with a little locktite.

Hs645 uses their 'C1' 24t splines and i can find 32pitch and 48pitch gears to fit it made of Acetyl and brass. But i haven't figured out what the slew gear donor should be to make it all work.. i also learned the vex gears are 24 pitch.

[SteinHDan]

What about a small gear motor with a drum on it, like this one?

- http://www.ebay.com/itm/262553977068


And control it with an ESC.


Best regards,
Stein :-)

[SteinHDan]

As an alternative, for the slew and pinon gears, maybe you could use something like this:
- Pinion: http://www.ebay.com/itm/151889646562
- Slew: http://www.ebay.com/itm/161891095040

You can see they have almost all types of bores, mods and number of teeth:
- http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=worldwindow2010&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X1+mod+spu r+gear.TRS0&_nkw=1+mod+spur+gear&_sacat=0

If you select a 4mm bore, then you can use a gear motor like this one:
- http://www.ebay.com/itm/381486411254

60 RPM / (66 teeth / 12 teeth) = 60rpm / 5.5 = 11 RPM

11 RPM for the swing would be quite ok, I think.


Best regards,
Stein :-)

[Rvjimd]

Frizz,

I'll turn the drums for you if you know what you want/need. Mine are pretty simple. You want them as large in diameter as you can fit nested next to each other. And for width I just wanted the drum to be centered in the "window".

Now, for the tricky part. I don't like the way I attached mine to the servo, but I have had no problems with them so far. I drilled and taped the servo spline screw hole to something larger, probably 2-56 or 4-40 I don't recall which. Then a matching stud installed in the drive end of each drum and a pin in the off end of the drum which is held by the support channel at the other end.

Ideally you would want the drive end to be a spline to match the servo but that is way past my machine skills and tooling.

Jim

[TRUCKMAKER]

Hey Frizzen you got this done yet? You got 2 of the masters working with you it ought to be close ;) I missed some of the posts on here, don't overlook the fact that the longer you make the boom the larger the counter weight you'll need. If you make it much longer and you do a side swing it will tip it over without lifting anything :rolleyes::D

[modelman]

If you select a 4mm bore, then you can use a gear motor like this one:
- http://www.ebay.com/itm/381486411254

60 RPM / (66 teeth / 12 teeth) = 60rpm / 5.5 = 11 RPM

11 RPM for the swing would be quite ok, I think.


Best regards,
Stein :-)

Nice to see old rigs like this converted. I think on a machine this size-3rpm would be the maximum you want for swing speed and maybe slower. On a dragline with hi-speed swing you will be slinging that bucket around uncontrollably. Also, the longer you make the boom the more boom tip speed you have. You also need a very smooth speed controller for the swing to keep the bucket from swinging wildly. Good luck and have fun.

[frizzen]

SteinHDan, that would work too. I was just planning on running the gearmotor/esc combo units like i'd seen on other cable machines like built by thestuff, smallhaul, rvjimd

Truckmaker, yeah you're right what can i say... i suck at building and having time/money.

I know the longer boom will impart a lot more moment on the machine, i just wanted to see how things change around, and more reach looks really cool. I'm also not above running lead ballast if it needs it.

jim, i greatly appriceate that.
I was thinking something maybe built off one of these:
https://www.servocity.com/standard-hub-horns
Thinking i can have a protrusion to index to the .500 hole and a flange to bolt on the near-side. i wasn't sure if it's worth it to have far-side support on the drums?

I need to break out calipers and think and mock up a bit before i'd be able to do a dimentional sketch for your consideration.

Or depending on the alloy you have, i might be able to just order a spare gearset and just broach the splines into a much simpler drum instead of getting that crazy.

[Rvjimd]

Frizz, do you have the servos already? If not, I highly recommend the hitec 645MG. Especially since I have some of them here already and I can use the round horn to make up a prototype drum.

I would do some off side support, it isn't too much more work and helps support and align the drums.

I'll do something on this today and see what I come up with. I am going to see if I can simply use one of the plastic horns that they come with. I don't think we need the metal spline version for strength. I'll post my progress here.

Jim

[Rvjimd]

How about like this? I'm about to drill the horn to the drum. Then it can be screwed to the servo through the center hole in the drum. The off side can then use a pin to support it.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/9CF86CAE-22AF-494C-A04D-F8B3DE46E6B3_zpsxvsje7zw.jpg

Jim

[Rvjimd]

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/623516A6-1604-4E0C-B395-4CD0A436DC56_zpsa4pjmrv3.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/Slotcarjim/media/623516A6-1604-4E0C-B395-4CD0A436DC56_zpsa4pjmrv3.jpg.html)

[frizzen]

That's pretty much exactly what i had been thinking, i just didn't know how much force the machine uses vs the plastic strenght. I was trying to overcomplicate things.

I'm going to have to send you a pm, that's looking beautiful.

[Rvjimd]

As long as you add a support rack for the off side I think it will work great, I only put two screws in the plastic horn. The screws are about 1/2" of from center so they will have all kinds of torque way out there and they only need to turn the drum. I have two of them made.

Jim

[Rvjimd]

Here is the third one in the lathe, just about to drill the center hole.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/B06FEA3C-B285-47C1-AF40-6FC7E7BEB546_zpsrxiaii3l.jpg

Frizz, send me that PM. I can probably send these to you Thursday. I'm think I'll make the mounting bracket for the servos and the off side support as well.

Jim

[Rvjimd]

Frizz,

Here are the three drums. I made a little angle bracket for them and decided to stop there and see what you think? They will need a strap across the opposite end of the servo mount tabs and I used a small 1/4" channel for the off end drum support. The center hole in the off end of the drums could be enlarged a bit at the end to match the head of a #6 cap screw which could be threaded into the channel to support the off side of the drums.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/D7EE26C3-7E3C-4699-9779-282B2A980CF5_zpss0crtdes.jpg

Jim

[frizzen]

At this rate, you'll need to write up a dimensioned spec sheet on the parts or start offering kits.

Those are looking really great!

[frizzen]

As far as i've found, real Clark Michigan cranes seem to be set up with a pair of dead lines off the tip to a sheeve block, cables run from the sheeves back to the house some unknown number of times for mechanical advantage and to reduce the amount of cable.

http://i.imgur.com/GMwf9coh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8yxSDGRh.jpg

these are the most helpful images I've been able to find so far

Stock toy just had it route: fixed at house, tip pulley, cable drum. And it works fine as a toy.

Atleast for now, i'm thinking split the difference like jim did: fixed at house, tip, house, tip, house, drum.

[Rvjimd]

Frizz,

Mailed some stuff your way this morning, supposed to arrive Tuesday.

jim

[frizzen]

Mail came right before i had to leave for work. Eventually i got home and got to open this up!

http://i.imgur.com/PeJVxH8h.jpg

They look awesome, thank you so much!

I'm going to have to study your setup on the C-24 a bit more.

[Rvjimd]

Friz,

once you start messing with it, let me know if you need more detail or have questions.

Oh, and I don't know for sure, but I think the center holes are a bit undersized for 1/8" shaft.

Jim

[frizzen]

Good call on the hs-645 being easy to mod to contious rotation. I had all 4 servos swapped pretty quick.
Verify it works, open up, unscrew pot retainer screw inside, remove the output gear, support the gear on a v-block or pair of pliers and bump pin out. Reassemble, lube gears, verify ops and center pot. I may swap the pots out later for matched set gold band resistors if i'm in there sometime later...

Have they been looked into enough to see if there's a way to open up the deadband a bit wider?

Were the shafts you used made from piano wire, or from a certain donor?

[Rvjimd]

Shafts for the pulleys you mean? I used 1/8" steel round from the "hobby" rack at menards. I think you may need to drill out the center hole, I think they were a bit under size but verify.

Jim

[frizzen]

Build goes slow, lots of life happened...

I know you said 1/8 steel rod is fine to support pulleys, but crazy lives here. Aluminum and steel don't play that nicely together, and i can't remember i'm converting a toy to a better toy. I haven't decided the pulleys need polished and alodined yet, it's probably not far off. Blah blah blah, fretting, types of corrosion, galling...
So finally made it to the hobby shop and got my suppolt rod setup: 1/8 steel rod stock held with 1/8 E-clips, 5/32 brass tube as bushing between pulley and rod.

Also i realized that the back of my cab roof has seperated spotwelds from the right side of the house so that needs cleaned up and braized.

[frizzen]

More boring scratch-build notes:
Picked up the slewing ring gear, an Align trex 500 main gear, 162 teeth, 1/4" tall, 3.986" od. (Thanks again jim)

It seems to mesh ok with a servo spline mount gear i picked up several years ago. Hitech hs-645mg use C1 spline, this gear is 18 teeth, 1/8" tall, 0.426" od. I forgot if it's 32 or 48 pitch.
Gear ratio comes in at 9:1.

[Rvjimd]

Nice to see you working on it! Jim

[frizzen]

I braised the broken spotwelds, but it was a little tweaked. I can work around that.

I got the slew gear mounted on truck, got my 3 servo mount drilled up and ready, tried to tighten and stripped threads instead of pulling flush, made hardwear bigger, remounted lower. got slew servo mounted, realized 3 servo mount was now in interference, pulled it all back out. Trimmed top ear off top servo and mount so it fit where i originally wanted before i redrilled. Made mount plate for slew servo 0.125 between bottom and servo.

http://i.imgur.com/0FOpQ4Mh.jpg

Grabbed a 1/2" chrome hole plug like the truck has for headlights, center drilled it for an LED, mounted that in crane cab. A bruder operator looked too professional for me learning how to run this, so i found someone more my speed.

http://i.imgur.com/VdtjAjrh.jpg

Not sure if i'm going to like the white string, or the green fishing line better. Thoughts?

I've been trying to keep from chevy-ing this too badly. But there's always the fun part here's what i've got to work with here... but that's sae, these are metric, that's phillips.

This is my first model without an esc. Do you run a bec, or an rx pack, or full stuck pack, or?

[Rvjimd]

Nice, coming right Along.

I can't remember exactly how I'm running mine. Right from a three cell lipo I think, I'll check and let you know.

I used a black marker to dye the string black. You want me to make you a little drum for the drag rope at the cab? The wide one that goes on the boom pivot pin.

Jim

[Bo Wallen]

Nice build. Just an idea for the white strings. Put them in cup of coffee a few days and they should get some patina.

[Rvjimd]

Bo, nice idea on the white string. I might try that. Frizz, if you try it, make sure it doesn't make the string get stiff, you want it to be pretty soft and flexible.



Jim

[Bo Wallen]

Bo, nice idea on the white string. I might try that. Frizz, if you try it, make sure it doesn't make the string get stiff, you want it to be pretty soft and flexible.



Jim


Thanks Jim. The line get stiff when it dries. Because some grain or sediment of coffee. As son as you rub it a little it's fine and smooth and works great. I did this on my Lego Crane. But when they made Photos of the crane for Posters i had to change string to white again........ugh. The sponsor told me white strings would look better on the picture.

[frizzen]

The hoist and boom lines in those pics are nylon inner strands of 550 paracord mil-c-5040h t3. Should be good for 70 lbs.
The crowd line is green spiderwire fishing line, they also have a brown. Should be good for 50-60 lbs.

The counterweight lid and cab roof are the color i'm planning when finished.

I was trying to decide what size looked better, i should be able to dye the white with something like RIT.

Yeah, i'm sure you could do a nicer looking drag drum than i'm set up to make so far. What do you use for the calming lines with your clamshell?

[Rvjimd]

Frizz,

I think all my lines are made from mini blind pull cord from the sewing store EXCEPT the calming lines, those are made of a heavy black sewing thread. Remember, you want all lines to be flexible. They need to wrap around the drums easily so when they do NOT have tension that they won't try to bird nest.

I'll make that little drag drum for you this week.

Jim

[frizzen]

Little more progress to share now that i've got better pics... still need to go pick up more hardware again.

Swing gear mounting,
i used 3mm hardwear mounted from below with slightly oversize holes so i can center gear zero if needed with house on. It took more than a little bit of math and dial caliper time to get the hole layout.

http://i.imgur.com/4qTMeELh.jpg

Find centers on slew gear diagonal screw holes, divide that. Take pivot post OD, divide that. Take 1/2 pivot, subtract from to 1/2 diagonal, mark circle. Set gear on marks, check circle under screw holes. Locate screw holes on circle, mark, recheck, dimple, drill, dry fit.
---
Example math
1.300" diagonal Align t-rex helicopter gear (0.650)
Nylint Michigan 0.250" post (0.125)
0.650 - 0.125 = 0.525" from edge of post to ring mounts

Doepke Unit 0.186" hole (0.093)
0.650 - 0.093 = 0.557" from edge of hole to ring mounts

Then verify those marks are viewable through all the slew ring mount holes, if not you messed up somewhere.
---
Swing servo under house.
Installed servo in a 0.125" aluminum plate to get spacing far enough below house support ring to get my pinion into the fixed gear. Clearanced the servo case around swing gear, bigger spur would have helped. 4mm hardwear, installed from the top so i can adjust gear mesh with cab on.
http://i.imgur.com/nsLxKa7h.jpg

Cable drum mount and off side support rack.
Support pins are ball ends from turnbuckles, 3mm thread that was spares from my 1/16 everest rock crawler dumptruck. Racks mount into the window surround with 4mm hardwear. Top servo, top forward mount ear removed for clearance
http://i.imgur.com/Dvwd35uh.webp

[Rvjimd]

Looking good! How did you do the boom extension?

I still plan on sending you a drag rope drum...

Jim

[frizzen]

The boom extension is just aluminum stock. 2 side plates, 2 plates for top bottom, with 4 pieces of 1/4" angle. 2 screws hold each angle to each side. After figuring out a pattern, I screwed matching plates together through waste areas, drilled corners and cutouts, then stuck a metal blade on my scroll saw and play connect the dots. Little file work to clean up It seems strong enough with just the top plate, but i wouldn't want to side load it too much.

I used 1/8" steel rods for the attach pins, small o-rings to retain pins so you can quickly take it on / off without fumbling with E-clips. (Planning ahead incase i get the chassis powered, since that's a LOT of boom to plan for swing ahead of the steering axles.)

No worries, i've trying to figure out something nice enough to send your way.

[frizzen]

Amber beacons mean one thing... SAFETY THIRD
http://i.imgur.com/DubyCXZh.jpg
Radioshack, neon panel mount warning light.

http://i.imgur.com/nG44JwTh.jpg
Got the rack mounts in, reeved the machine with paracord guts. It seems to spool pretty well, 1 drum at a time since i'm waiting on my radio.

Couple more brackets, and it should be time to start knocking rust off and make it look not as bad

[frizzen]

Oh god, my eyes!!!
http://i.imgur.com/is5wZbMh.jpg
May the people at Rustoleum experience pinapple insertions from the devil for eternity, for using 'spray at any angle' impossible to clear nozzles on their rattle bombs. Apparently i wanted this to sag and look like 'poop' because i didn't junk the entire can after doing 2 test piece? What's a scale "20 foot paint job" work out to?

http://i.imgur.com/gQI8WUNh.jpg
Rc4wd warn hook. I wanted a hook with a safety gate so i can drop the bucket and play crane without Mr OSHA shaking my monkey-tree. I'm very happy with this. 1/10 crawler winch hook, looks about right for this 1/16-ish 24 ton crane.

Flashy light circuit is built and turns on/off with model power.
Crane house headlight i wimped out and is just switched instead of remote operable.
I may need to do a horn, or servo an operator.

[frizzen]

That was boring, let's do better.
http://i.imgur.com/1EIWKeSh.jpg

And

http://i.imgur.com/flqxaECh.jpg

[Rvjimd]

Frizz,

I got a free slot and thought I'd make that drag rope pulley for you. I'll make it just like mine unless you have another idea.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/db6e406227999fb8f65b41efebf30f4f_zps2fhimn63.jpg

Jim

[Rvjimd]

Frizz,

I'll send this out along with two brass spacers. You might need to file the spacers down lengthwise to get a good fit on your boom pivot. I left them a tiny bit long on purpose.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/bcd491ea9a13d6ea7ca932e0cbf6f20e_zpswkksnl7q.jpg

Jim

[Mikem]

On the white string I used brown or black shoe dye on a large scale railroad crane I built

[Rvjimd]

Ya, that would probably work good! I think I used a sharpie marker which is sort of a pain to do...

Jim

[frizzen]

That is beautiful. Thank you again! This build owes so much to you jim.

Yeah mike, thats a good idea. I was thinking about either grey, black, or brown next time i tear it apart.

I ran this at the Lebanon IN show and learned some things in crumb rubber:
- Draglines just don't work when material is above them, it falls out. built a work platform.
- My temp bucket is too light, and badly designed.
- I need to make a set of wire fairleads for hoist and crowd drums.
- I need to locktite the offside drum support balls.

[frizzen]

What's the hole for in the left side running board on yours?

Hmm, what's that way at the back, working the pile in the center?
http://i.imgur.com/G8ajJZHh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lQEOcEBh.jpg
Jim is awesome! This new crowd line roller looks killer.

Now i've got an idea for making a crowd roller fairlead i saw a video of on a big machine...

Would you be interested in something like an aluminum boom extension, or house mounted boom sheeve risers, i've got extrusion for the height on mine, or i can go to 2.5"

[Rvjimd]

Ha, ya I saw the picture of your dragline sitting on the pile in the background. :rolleyes: Oh ya, there he is!

Don't worry about parts for me, just help me get my truck rolling by answering all my questions and feeding me pictures!;)

The hole in the running board is/was to adjust set screws in my tracks or maybe something I did on the new undercarriage but I don't remember for sure, I know you don't need one, cause I don't use it anymore! :p I think when I did my update on the crawler I moved the track tensioners to the outside and don't need access from the top now.

Jim

[frizzen]

I knew i didn't need that hole, i just thought it might be something cool. Non-skid tape, or a toolbox could cover that up.

http://i.imgur.com/vPzYIrzh.jpg
I needed a monkey chair to get George up to operating height. It straddles the cab rotate servo, and has armrests so he can use control levers i still have to make.

Some day i may get good enough to have an operator that's not a monkey...

[Rvjimd]

Haha, I like George! And, if there is trouble on the boom he can get right to it! :p

[frizzen]

At the lebanon meet, i learned my thin gauge practice drag bucket (that was only made to understand the mechanics) is too light for crumb rubber. Build a new one, or weld more crap to it...

http://i.imgur.com/Mu5z7MRh.jpg

So that got a whole new arch, which was a bit too heavy. Then my welder stuck a counterweight on the back, ground on the arch to clear the chains. Now we see how that monkey at the controls does with it.

http://i.imgur.com/I8k4pH3h.jpg

Once we got that squared away, some guys wanted to hire us to excavate a foundation for their building. This jerk with a cigar starts going off on Mike Oxbig Hauling being inappropriate, then pointing at the crane boom and getting weird. Everything out of this guys mouth was pen is-this, and phallic-that. The whole time he's sucking on a cigar like a, nevermind. Then his nerd friend with the pipe and glasses started backing him up with even more of this rude junk. I had to throw them out of my yard!

Don't work for that Sigmund Freud guy, or his buddy Carl Jung. Those guys are obsessed.

[egronvold]

Funny :)

[frizzen]

This thread is now freed from the horrible Photobucket photobutt!

Time to celebrate.
http://i.imgur.com/pg5G44sh.jpg

[frizzen]

I've been having trouble with throwing the hoist cable off the boom tip sheeves, so this U weight free spins on the shaft.
http://i.imgur.com/NA2dj3Nh.jpg

I need some outrigger pads for working on soft dirt
http://i.imgur.com/tUV54sZh.jpg

You guys go out and tune the dragline bucket now that the welder has added weight.
http://i.imgur.com/EW0X1rph.jpg
Oh goddamn it. Why haven't i fired you yet?

Go work on something, we're paying you!
http://i.imgur.com/4uFlljsh.jpg

[Rvjimd]

Nice idea on the U guide for the ropes.

[frizzen]

http://i.imgur.com/O2ZTna2h.jpg

What did you do?!?!?!

----
I have an 1955-56 initial release toy, later has some changes.
http://www.tnttoytrucks.com/NYCONDiggers.html

The headlights are just 1/2" chrome hole plugs, push out.
The grill has a blind rivet, grind production head and punch. We'll get shop head once cab off.
The front axle has a rivet, grind shop head and punch.
The rear walking beams have a rivet each, grind shop heads and punch.
The cab has a rivet at back, grind shop head, punch, front has a joggle.
The outriggers are captive, unscrew bolt, pull both beams through other side.

Cab off gives access to the engine compartment

[Rvjimd]

He must have been going way too fast! :D

Jim

[frizzen]

I hired a mechanic, and he's got the truck overhauled and looking quite a bit better.

http://i.imgur.com/Xnei8BGh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/vbV5Kmch.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jVX6EUph.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/NJ21C1uh.jpg

Axle pivots were changed to 4mm hardwear for now, probably going to get holes oversized and brass bushings later on when it gets the power overhaul. 

It still needs some detail parts put back on, and more boom work. But it looks like i should have hired a diesel mechanic a while back.

I threw together a suprise for crane operation...

Hopefully by the Sept meet i'll get mirror and wiper painted and back on, make some windows. Maybe a few other things, but probably nothing too heavy.

Then some dimentinal drawings for the crane carrier were tracked down and this is 1/16 scale.

[frizzen]

A dragline in its natural habitat... a rabbit barn?

https://i.imgur.com/DMVc7xwh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/pTqrSkuh.jpg

So those new things...

A bigger production bucket, with adjustments, teeth, and an esco load leveling link
https://i.imgur.com/502F3p1h.jpg

A shipping container (tissue box cover, around 1/25 scale), and a rigging bar
https://i.imgur.com/KkFvusXh.jpg

Please rise...
https://i.imgur.com/JuzF1Wzh.jpg
I didn't get any pics of this at the show where i had it at full mast. Hopefully some pop up.

Learned the big bucket really needs me to not forget the extra counter weights.
The small bucket works much better now that it's heavier!
I need to take more pics at events.
Learned that George still has no depth perception and can't tell where the truck bed is from show distances...

[skeeter]

I LOVE it, it looks super cool all fancied up.

[frizzen]

Thanks! Glad you like it so far. It's really coming along from where i started.

Carrier got front and back glass, start of a dashboard, wiper, and mirror.
I'm thinking it's going to need yellow/black scotchlite diagonal stripes on rear bumper. Maybe tail lights eventually after it's powered

I still need to decide who runs it so i can consider some lettering, i still doubt it's going to get reproduction nylint michigan badges.

Front end i can't decide if it would look better with a heavy pintle hitch, or building a box bumper with a boom support cradle.

The crane house got top glass, it probably needs a mesh cover eventually. The headlight on it is ok, but could really use some boom lights, and remote operable instead of a switch.

I don't think i mentioned using wire marker stickers so each servo plug is labeled at rx with a number/letter to make rework easier later once i forget everything.
1 c = crowd line
2 h = hoist line
4 r = cab rotate
5 b = boom elevation

The hs-645 servos have a 2.5a stall, so i should be ok with a 10a or bigger BEC.

Planning to make a set of fitted stainless steel plates for counter weight to replace the current 'big bolts' that were handy.

[frizzen]

I found some bigger and flashier lights that do strobe, chase, patterns...i bought a big square, small square, big dome, little dome, aero dome.

https://i.imgur.com/XtFnrhQh.jpg

This new blinky light was from amazon, it is small dome, its still bigger than my old panel light lens. It should keep safety guy at my jobsite happier. It has Fast rotate, Slow rotate, multi strobe, single strobe

[skeeter]

Sweet! Looks like it was meant to be there on that model.

[Hofabooz]

Hi

Looking good.
I take it the monkey is cheap to run as he is paid in bananas

[frizzen]

George is real cheap labor, a bunch of banannas a week and he's good.
The downside is angry monkey makes a mess throwing 'stuff'... An angry monkey with a dragline, just leave the jobsite!

https://i.imgur.com/cBsdyjQh.jpg

https://s20.postimg.org/aychssdot/Leb0118-37.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/SQAPM3lh.jpg
We took over a loading dock to move containers.

https://i.imgur.com/er59yb1h.jpg

George told us the bucket wasn't digging well enough, and the dump line had too much drag.
https://i.imgur.com/zPDbM8dh.jpg
So after getting back to the yard, the old boom snatchblock got hooked to the Esco leveling link.

[frizzen]

Several people have asked me about my Shipping Container. I ran across it on TheStuffs youtube channel. I'm planning to get a few more, and stencil some of them, some weathering.

It's an Infmetry tissue box cover i got from Amazon, $15, mine is 'green'.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B012K3KCFW/ref=sxts_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1516832173&sr=1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&th=1&psc=1
They have blue, green, red, brown, yellow.
It scales to 1/24, and the top slides off a short side to open. It comes as a knock-down kit, slide walls together, drop bottom in then snap down, slide top on.


I don't have one of these. These have a side load door, a decal, $30
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06XSJL5XV/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1516832173&sr=8-5&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=shipping+container+tissue&dpPl=1&dpID=414P3gqzA%2BL&ref=plSrch
Orange, red, blue
I like it, but don't know if the brands have same dimentions.

There are a bunch out there, search for "Shipping container tissue"

They have some going up to like $120, with door latches, and brands, and claiming to be metal.

https://i.imgur.com/qZ2QYXJh.jpg
No don't crush my Subaru!

[frizzen]

https://i.imgur.com/MfuIPMuh.jpg
The guys were playing around with some more lifting, and remembered to put out cones this time.

https://i.imgur.com/sfDae2bh.jpg
Still working on scale accessories. Not sure what else it needs.
Outrigger mats, some cones, and the brass ammo can with a magnet and some tools

[frizzen]

George really needed a set of levers for the Michigans air clutches.
https://i.imgur.com/tkjKaHSh.jpg

Sewing straight pins, brass tube soldered to a brass plate under the seat. Crowd, Hoist, Boom, Swing. I couldn't find any in-cab reference pics.

[Rvjimd]

Those are some nice looking rope drums if i do say so... :rolleyes:

[frizzen]

Yeah, those winch drums and pulleys are the nicest part of the machine. The guy who made them should be really proud!

The big trick to keeping cable drums pretty and running flat is getting the first wrap as tight and perfect as possible, then running enough rope it doesn't have to ever use any of the first wrap. Then it's just don't slack the lines too much.

I've about got this part running well enough to start pulling it back apart to finally do some parts clean up. ...After it's warm enough to paint.

[skeeter]

George really needed a set of levers for the Michigans air clutches.
https://i.imgur.com/tkjKaHSh.jpg

Sewing straight pins, brass tube soldered to a brass plate under the seat. Crowd, Hoist, Boom, Swing. I couldn't find any in-cab reference pics.

The pins.............There's that thinking outside the box that you do so well. I absolutely LOVE the creativity that you did there! :cool:

[frizzen]

Truckmaker made pretty reasonable offer, so i picked up his 1955/56 Nylint "Michigan Shovel" T-24 crane with clamshell, a welded steel boom extension. Faded paint, some rust, broken hook. The boom extension might be a CCSM piece, i can't find much info on the accessories they build for these.

https://i.imgur.com/FL6H9wPh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/heC7Fkhh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/azPNTNHh.jpg

Looks like i'm *really* into cranes now. This makes 2 Michigan T-24s, and a Unit 357.

This new one has got 3 FEET of boom. With this much reach, this one really looks like it wants to play Crane more than it would Dragline and may need a jib boom and hoist cable pendant...

The doepke Unit (orange) needs a long boom extension.

[TRUCKMAKER]

Make it look good Frizzen!

[Stuff]

WOW!! I have been missing out on this thread! those trucks are huge! Must resist urge to upgrade lol

[FabOne]

GOOD grab Frizzen!!

[skeeter]

Somehow I missed the acquisition of the other machines. I knew of the yellow one that Curious George operated, but not of the other 2 machines. Are they all RC operated?

[frizzen]

Thanks again truckmaker. So far I've only knocked a little rust off and restrung it.

Stuff don't resist, you need one of these too... Do it!
I'd originally been looking for a Unit crane, but these are bigger, much more available, and signifigantly cheaper. Or there's a Tonka crane/dragline that has a kinda Bucyrus Erie look, or a Structo that's just kinda weird and out of scale.

Thanks fab, i really like these.

Skeeter, the orange one (doepkey 1/16 Unit 357 Crane) was quietly picked up and has only appeared with a custom drawbar as the 'coolest trailer ever' in the Structo dump thread, maybe in my 'town' thread, and has followed me to a meet once.
The faded original yellow one (nylint 1/16 Michigan T24 Crane) was Truckmakers, there was a thread of his around here somewhere when he got it.
They're both still just static toys.

I might be working on a set of drums and pulleys for the Unit, and would like to rebuild a Clamshell to actually work correctly instead of toy style.

Georges crane still needs the pin on the truck tapped for some kind of thrust bearing to hold the bushings tighter, and a better counterweight made. It gets too tippy with the extension and big bucket, pulls out of mesh on the slew ring

[Stuff]

You dont happen to have a YouTube channel do you? And yes I'm tempted to get one and put tamiya running gear under it... lol

[frizzen]

I don't have a youtube channel yet, still can't come up with a good name. Although if you want to see one of these in action, Rvjimd has a channel

The truck is too narrow for semi running gear, it comes in at like 6". I'm trying to find gearmotors for power
-----
Yes, i do have a Youtube channel. It's not good though.

[skeeter]

Frizzy, have you though of adding lead inside the existing counterweight? I've done that to several Bruder conversions with success.

[frizzen]

Couple months ago I finally got around to epoxying lead shot into the back of the house about 1/4" deep. Probably in the 1-2 lb range. It helps, but i probably still need to get a thrust bearing, fender washer, screw, drilled&tapped pivot post...

Then reccently some people here were talking about clamshell buckets again, so i thought why not try to convert a Nylint clamshell bucket, using as much of the stuff removed during conversion of this Nylint. What could it look like if the factory were to have made one more complicated?

https://i.imgur.com/k2gc20Fh.jpg

This uses the original tip mounted Hoist line pulley moved to the top between the 4 links, brass axle with lifting loop, and a cable guide with a W shape. Then the Boom angle pulley was removed from its bracket and installed with spacers at the bucket fulcrum. The buckets closer line ties off to the top axle, runs below the bucket hinge, then up around the top pulley, to the cable guide and a ring where the Crowd line attaches.

https://i.imgur.com/xkaZxc0h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RyARCINh.jpg

Then i ran a Calming line from one of the buckets links, around a pin on the boom, to a fishing weight. It just needs enough weight to keep the bucket from rotating and tangling the lines, and enough length for the needed travel.

[Jared]

If you want to dig something like sand, you may need to add weight and add more reeving to increase the bite. Clams have some weird dynamics as they close. The more they close, the more the closing line lifts the bucket and it needs enough weight to counter that. Adding parts to the reeving can do the same thing but at the expense of speed and needing more distance to the boom tip to give the extra line a place to go unless the line off the drum is rove directly into the bucket. Looks like you've got a good start, though.

[frizzen]

Thank you, i knew that clamshells had some pretty weird stuff going on. I hadn't tried digging deep enough into the subject yet to understand very much of the engineering behind them. I appriceate suggestions, it's pretty new to me.

So far i've got the axle between the jaw halves sleeved with 2 sizes of brass tube. I'm not sure how much closing force and weight something like this needs vs overbuilding it and reducing lifting capacity / working reach.

I do know that trying to keep the lines on this attachment balanced without them going slack or the bucket opening really makes just running a poorly built dragline bucket seem downright simple!

-----
I run a Flysky FS-I6. Due to the next post, I'd like to set up a switch setting for Dragline that runs all winches straight, and throw a switch for jareds suggestion of mix the lines for clamshell ops.

This looks like i can set up switching Normal and Sport modes for Crowd and Hoist epa. So i can make 'Noob' and 'Send it' settings.
https://youtu.be/xt5IdeLdiug
Not sure if my rig can actually toggle a Mix.

I'd also like to be able to run a servo slower than its nominal transit speed

[Jared]

I mixed the channels so up-down on the right stick makes both drums turn together and left-right only controls the closing line.

[skeeter]

I LOVE the old line driven machines!

[frizzen]

Clamshell
https://youtu.be/g0zSWAf96Qo
Bucket still too light, need practice, need to see if my radio will allow changing modes to switch between Straight and Mixed channels.

Dragline
https://youtu.be/qP5V3h7Xa18
Runs well in crumb rubber, but my "formerly crawlspace dirt" isn't very uniform. Also needs more rear bucket weight to keep it planted better. Or i need to lower the line attachments at bucket leading edge so the rear won't want to lift under tension.

I probably need to find either a Tonka dragline bucket, or get one like TheStuff has for massive 1/50 scale machines like a Silver Spade

[frizzen]

Since i posted a video on Reeving toy cranes, a guy was asking me some questions about the Unit Crane boom, and since it doesn't have a build thread of its own...

These doepke cranes have a 2 piece boom so it can fold upwards for transport.
Total Boom lenght cab pin to center of tip sheeves 18.5"
Base width at cab 2"
Width at breakover 1.5"
Height at breakover pins about 1.630" but didn't pull pins or rivets
Width at tip 1.550"
1 sheeve and guides inside tip, 1 sheeve outboard of tip each side
-
When i feel like yanking a boom extension off one of my Michigans, boom specs will go here

-
Also so that this isn't just worthless to constuction guys:
if you've got a craft type of store that does christmas decorations like tabletop 'christmas town' kinda stuff look for a Lemax #44755 ''lighted accessory". I found these at Menards, but i know other places carry Lemax christmas stuff

It's portable worksite lighting that gives 5 light heads that can independantly aim and mast telescopes 8_9/16" to 12_3/4". Runs off 3AA cells or can use their 4.5v wall-wart power system

https://imgur.com/ED0o8T9h.jpg

If you're the 'warrany voiding' type like me, there's a glued in button that covers a screw to split the base apart. Electrically there's not much to mod, got a 23 ohm resistor (current limiter?), then each light head has a surface mount LED on a board. Each light head has a reflector, lens, retainer. I really want to bridge the base resistor for max light, but don't want to smoke it.

---

https://youtu.be/wc7UmjQvfCM cool old crane & trucking photo montage

[jerry56]

And if you need those sheeves you can get them here
https://www.gasolinealleytoys.com/products/doepke-unit-crane-upper-boom-tip-replacement-toy-parts-set
or a boom extension for the unit crane this is the long one, they also have a short one
https://www.gasolinealleytoys.com/products/doepke-unit-crane-boom-extension-replacement-toy-part2

[trilliwilli]

Hi Frizzen,

For the Unit crane I have been searching for info and dimensions. I already found some dimensions in Smallhauls thread, and I have a servicemanual with valuable information.

I am missing some dimensions and was wondering if you could help me out, since I read you have done some measuring on the boom which is already very helpfull to me.

I need the following dimensions:
-width of the upperstructure
-length of the upperstructure over the centre ( from centre boom to centre counterweight)
-width of the enginebay behind the cab
-height of the upperstructure at the back (bottom carriage to top engine bay)

It is very nice to read all the conversions here from old toy cranes, but my only resource for a Doepke crane in Europe is Ebay, and the prices are no fun, let alone the shipping costs.

I am planning on building a Unit 614 completely myself in scale 1:14, so slightly bigger than the 1:16 Doepke crane.

Have you seen the videos from Jonathan W on Youtube about saving a Unit 614 from the woods. Its epic. This is the first of 12 videos:

https://youtu.be/4JWbQwhOMo0

Thanks in advance.

[9W Monighan]

We have some 1:1 Unit shovels at our outdoor show...Brownsville Pennsylvania National Pike show
I won't be down there till mid April or May though.

[frizzen]

Trilliwilli,
I sure can, but everything is in inches since that's how machine and toy were designed, and consider the rotation pivot measurement approximate since i'm still not ready to tear my Unit down for rc conversion

Doepke Unit 357 measurements

Crane house base height 1/4"
Crane house base width 6 1/8"
Crane house base length 8"
Crane house pivot to front of base 2 1/4"
Boom attach pin beyond front of base 7/16"
Boom attach pin above top of base 1"

Cab width 2 1/4"
Cab length 3 3/4''
Cab height 5"
Cab to gearbox 1 7/16"
Gearbox width 1"
Gearbox length 2 3/4"

Counterweight height including base thickness 1"
Engine cover width 3 1/4"
Engine cover height 3 1/4"
Engine cover length 3 5/8"

------

I really like cranes
https://i.imgur.com/azPNTNHh.jpg

----

Nylint T-24 Michigan crane

Crane house base width 6"
Crane house base length 8 1/2"
Counterweight height 4"
Cab height 5"
Cab width 1 3/4"
Cable drum area width 2 1/2"
Front of house to counterweight 5 1/4"

Does anyone know of an action figure that would make a good 'Man With The Yellow Hat' to drive Georges dragline?

[trilliwilli]

We have some 1:1 Unit shovels at our outdoor show...Brownsville Pennsylvania National Pike show
I won't be down there till mid April or May though.

That is a nice offer. If I need some dimensions i can always ask. I have been searching for a Unit crane over here but it is difficult to find one. They are mostly scrapped, safety regulations makes it impossible to work with these old cranes without modifications. Due to COVID i haven't been able to visit an oldtimer event, nothing went thru due to restrictions.

@frizzen

Thank you so much for the effort and the info. Fortunately the Doepke crane seems to be very accurate at scale 1:16, so these dimensions are very useful.

For the calculations from 1:16 to 1:14 is no problem, and from inches to metric is also not a problem, I have to deal with that at work as well.

I can sketch a first outline now to see if all the dimensions are in relation to each other.

My interest comes from my father, he was operator on a Unit 1014 truck mounted crane back in the seventies. My grandfather owned two of these cranes. The upper structure of the 1014 (truckmounted) is the same as the 614(crawler), the 617(longer crawler, wider shoes) and the 357(wheelmounted), which is your version of the Doepke crane.

All these cranes can be converted from dragline, clamshell and hoist with the crane boom, and as cable hoe attachement or shovel attachement.

Most cranes in Europe were the 1014 model, because these were ex US army cranes, used by starting crane companies, or the licensed built Neal-Unit cranes from the UK.

[frizzen]

If you're aiming for a Truck or Crawler mounted Unit, you might want to change how you watch ebay. The parts cabs come up fairly often usually without some combination of a boom, drive chassis, and engine cover. Bumps a $200 toy to more like $30, and may help with shipping.

Let me know what other pictures and measurements you may need.

Probably seen it already, but Factory model vs Toy
http://www.constructioncollector.com/editorial-Unit.html

----
Since starting the project, i've had a couple people question if it was really done back then, so let's watch some vintage Dragline loading Dumptruck action

https://youtu.be/Bu07huOng60

[trilliwilli]

I have been looking for parts cranes as well, but there is still a pretty large shipping fee, often between $50 and $60, and because it comes from the US, I have to pay taxes as well.
That is another 21% over the sum, a $30 parts crane bcomes a $100 piece of still parts.

I think I also like to have a little bit more room in the model, and my truck is a Wedico, which is scale 1:14,5, so for now I am sketching the crane up as a scratch built, due to wetter and COVID restrictions I am sitting at home doing nothing, well outside my work that is.

If I need some more info I will ask, thanks for the great help so far.

[frizzen]

So some Jerry guy around here has been telling me for a while that WPL crawler B or C series aluminum axles are the right width for the crane carrier. Aluminum wheels, fill the tires with something. The spacing on tandems are even right.

Although apparently WPL-B truck frame width is a bit wider than the Nylint frame structure under here. It will likely need some flavor of Walking beam or Link & coil spring setup instead of Leaf. Smart guy could probably "mill' their frame cross members to width and see how that all fits. My big concern is how to get that suspension stout enough to not destabilize things, or require installing forward outriggers like real machine has.

I'm not even sure how much this machine already weighs, but it wasn't light just as a toy.

Maybe get a Gorilla or make a "Man with the yellow hat" to drive the rig?

So i did the right thing, and have been randomly focusing on several other beat up toys in the garage instead of getting parts for this shiny one in the living room... (Buying new furnace & ac stuff over the summer seemed more priority? That can't be right)

[jerry56]

I have been pondering the same thing....As you have said the structure under the crane is 2 or 3 mm to narrow, and way to high, I've been trying to figure out how to cut those two pieces down to about 1/2 inch high then bolt some aluminum angle to them, I think this will give us the correct width to bolt up the WPL running gear... But I haven't figured out how to get in there and cut those two pieces down because the body is in the way...any ideas..
I'm planning a walking beam for the rear adapted to a set of the WPL metal "see-saws" as they call them... I'm also trying to avoid front out riggers.... that really complicate things
For motors I'm either going to try 2 300rpm 370 gear motors (one for the front axle and one for the rears) or a single 80 turn 550 with a 3:1 gear reduction and just power the rears....
As for weight I'm betting once it's done it will be really close to 25lbs easy...

[frizzen]

As a quick & dirty idea, I'd thought about trying to directly adapt those crossmembers into the nylint?
Couple swipes with caliper to split the width difference, grind some off ends to fit up within the rails.

Probably mark the rails for height, chuck some abrasive cutoff wheel in the flex-shaft machine to rip them down to height. The real fun part would be drilling those for the mount hardware, as i don't have a 90 or 45 degree drill.

I dunno, really need to cobble together enough of a junk parts mockup chassis to play with.

[ddmckee54]

Frizzen:

I've got a set of WPL plastic axles that I bought to see if they'd look right under a Bruder, along with the aluminum wheels and the tires. They were too small, a 5-6mm difference in OD makes a HUGE difference. Anyway, I've got the steer axle, the center axle and the rear axle. The plastic axles and the metal axles will have the same dimensions. If you need any dimensions let me know and I'll get them for you.

Don

[jerry56]

I was thinking about a cutoff wheel on a dremel as well....it's about the only thing small enough to get in there.... but that is "real" steel in them thar Nylints.. so it might take some time....
As for drilling mounting hols I was just going to put them over the wheel assemblies front and rear I think there is enough room to drill 4 or so holes on each side where the sides come up to form the wheel wells
I think you would need to take off about 4.5mm.... Doing that to the plastic would be easy but a little tougher on the metal ones...and you still might have to cut the frame down...
I guess for the fronts you could use some aluminum angle but you would have to cut some of the frame away to keep the ride height the same.

[frizzen]

I know that a WPL / JJRC axle with the plastc D-chassis wheel is narrow enough it looks like it'd be the inner wheels of a dually. I still need to try ordering some aluminums. Do they have anything that's Dually or all just SuperSingles

All i've really gotten done on this for a long time was painting the Drag Bucket a higher viz color

https://imgur.com/PNkHDAYh.jpg

Um, i like cranes...

https://imgur.com/s20gSxCh.jpg

[ddmckee54]

I've got the WPL "Off-road" tires and a dual set-up. I'll take some pictures and get some measurements tonight. They LOOK more like super-singles, but since I don't have any standard tires, I don't know how they'd fit on these rims.

Don

[jerry56]

Does this help
https://rctruckandconstruction.com/showthread.php?t=13887
And yes WPL has duals....
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801517569773.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.6c0e38daz 4eUIo&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa&_randl_shipto=US
These are narrower tires
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832692055237.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.6c0e38daz 4eUIo&gps-id=shoppingCartRecommend&scm=1007.13440.311564.0&scm_id=1007.13440.311564.0&scm-url=1007.13440.311564.0&pvid=62d3cad9-d9e7-4084-a682-9b47f59e17eb&_t=gps-id:shoppingCartRecommend,scm-url:1007.13440.311564.0,pvid:62d3cad9-d9e7-4084-a682-9b47f59e17eb,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238109%231935&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2265592773088%22%2C%2 2sceneId%22%3A%223440%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%216.5%215.98%21%21%21%21%21% 402101f6b416663818216195632ec9b4%2165592773088%21r ecI have a couple 3d printed wheels that I put in more backspacing so they fit closer to the frame rails ...

[jerry56]

The metal axles and wheels with the narrow tires are 152mm outside to outside edge... the crane is 149 and change inside edge to inside edge.
I have a set of 3d printed wheels that are 137mm wide with lego wheels... I think I have a set for the WPLs too....I think

[frizzen]

It was pointed out to me that i didn't include several measurements from my Cable Drums...

1" rod stock, clean up OD
0.250 long shoulders at 1" OD
1.5" OAL
0.750" diameter cable bed (1/8" deep)
1" long cable bed
Center drilled for whatever mount system you're considering
Bonus points, Lightly score for alignment of servo horn OD or screw holes

http://i.imgur.com/Dvwd35uh.webp

Cable bed of spool is the last gear ratio of a cable machine, like changing tire height on a car.
Diameter x 3.14 = line pull per revolution. < 0.750" x 3.14 = 2.355" line per rev on base wrap >
Line pull per revolution x RPM (or look up Servo transit speeds, convert angle to 360...)
< 0.2sec @ 60 deg... 0.2 / 60 sec = 300, 60 deg transit = 6 per rev, 50 rpm = 117 inch of line per minute max speed > so i'm running channel EPA cranked way down.

Bigger spool = faster pull / less torque
Smaller spool = slower pull / more torque

Dragline fairlead (suggested prior art)
https://patents.google.com/patent/US3006608
I just use some redirect sheeves to catch and pull the crowd back inline to get through the boom in a Z path

[frizzen]

Jeepy84 over on SBG found these reference pics. Hopefully a mod can approve him to join over here...

https://imgur.com/fZ6wIjdh.jpg

https://imgur.com/9MOMT6Hh.jpg

https://imgur.com/IpFV3brh.jpg

Since the lid to counterweight/engine area has to come off for access, I couldn't come up with a good way to do the really cool house-side boom lifting structure. I'd thought about spanning the house side boom hoist sheeves out on a framework coming off the elevated bracket, but didn't think it would look cool enough
Their boom extension piece makes me wonder if the Doepke crane long/short extensions might fit? Also the pulley lifting block hooks

I really like that boom tip line control yoke, mine might need that extra plate with lightning holes.

https://imgur.com/9Ao83C1h.jpg
A crane Jib-boom could be pretty useful to have too.

Mine hasn't made any changes since installing the bumper scotchlite
Still need to order front bumper pintle pin.
Build a house stand so i can work on the carrier...

But it's ok since there are never any meets, so the toys really don't matter, and i should probably just try to find adifferent hobby

[jerry56]

Those are great reference pictures... But looking at other pictures it looks like there were several ways the cabling was configured so I would think one is a correct as the others..
I know what you mean about shows... but there seems to be several out your way lately, I just enjoy building them so I'll probably stick with it for a while... may take a short break this spring to get the yard cleaned up and a small garden in but I'll come back to this...

[frizzen]

I know there "have been" some events in my area... I'm whining since it's really lame when the first you ever get to hear of a meet is sometime After it's Over.

Indianapolis, IN - toy contractor show that i only heard about because a friend into trains asked if it was our group doing the rc demonstration
Lebanon, IN - winter meet? couple weeks after it ended FrankSmith posts some videos from it on youtube
Lafayette, IN - there was a toy show? RC Dungeon had a thumbnail for a video tagged Lafayette In

Avon/Danville, IN - heard some rumors at 2 different local hobby shops that they thought there was a construction group out that way, but no solid details. The drift track thinks the guy who runs it is also with the Rock Crawlers, might be something.

[jerry56]

From now if I see something over on the book of faces I'll say something over here and not assume you heard about it

[frizzen]

I finally managed to find a man with enough management experience that he doesn't have that toxic "Not my circus, not my monkeys" attitude! A real take charge type of leader, whose not afraid to jump in and solve even the most absurd problems.

Some say, he used to work in a museum.
Some say, that he's "The Man."
Some say, that his real name is Ted.
All i know is, he's got a Yellow hat.

https://imgur.com/Aaaf8o0h.jpg

https://imgur.com/jEtCQr9h.jpg

If nobody seems to make who you need, find someone close and play custom action figure. Ran across a millitary guy in about the right outfit, plus scrap plastic, little jb weld, slap some paint around.

Because who else is Curious George going to have as a ground man?