AWD, worth it or not?

[Claus]

Just wondering what everybody's thoughts are here, there have been countless trucks built and shown on this site but a small percentage of them are AWD. Even some of the Heavy Haulers, Pacifics, Hayes, Macks, etc around here are not AWD and I'm sure they pull fine.


I'm getting the itch to build a King Hauler again. On one hand I want AWD, better traction is never a bad thing on a truck (plus cool factor), on the other hand I'm liking the thought of keeping things simple.

I will say I did 8X8 on my Wedico Pete, I don't regret it but it came with it's fare share of challenges.

[Cossett]

If you cant decide on whether to or not build a rig with front diff lock so you have the best of both worlds for on road off road

[tc1cat]

To me it depends upon how and where you are going to use the truck. If using it on dirt, AWD with locked diffs is a must for any truck. You need as much traction as you can get. If using it at Indy or any other site with the rubber and carpet, you should get by with just rear wheel drive.

[Stuff]

from my experience having both trucks there is pros and cons of each.

RWD single axle trucks are only good for on road applications. You can lock the rears but still only gets you so far. Best turning radius.

RWD tandem trucks go more places then singles, You can lock the front or both axles for more off road or sandy conditions and get some decent turning radius out of them.

AWD trucks go pretty much anywhere ground clearance will let them. Turning radius is not great on them however.

-TLT axles work good, so do highlift axles. Highlift axles stick out a hair more then TLT but easier to find and more upgrades. Also you can lock and unlock highlift axles with the grub screw that is a factory option. just requires the hex lining up through the sight hole and removing it. TLT's you have to take apart to lock and unlock.

regardless which axle, tamiya tundra highlift springs are the best to get them centered in the stock spring hanger locations.

[Snowman3725]

How would you run awd in a king hauler with the stock trans? No front output shaft and no clearance to fit a drive shaft from the rear

[Claus]

How would you run awd in a king hauler with the stock trans? No front output shaft and no clearance to fit a drive shaft from the rear

Not sure that I will stick with a stock Tamiya 3 Speed but there are ways to do that if a guy wants. Some people have lifted the transmission up on spacers and then ran a driveshaft to a divorced transfer case. I have seen where somebody had a new transmission shaft machined to drive off both ends. It all come down to creativity in the end.

Here is how the Late, Great Freedygeardrive did it;
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn50/FreddyGearDrive/freddys%20best/dumppics5476.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn50/FreddyGearDrive/freddys%20best/dumppics5479.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn50/FreddyGearDrive/freddys%20best/dumppics5468.jpg

Another idea:
http://www.scale4x4rc.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31401&d=1221072061

Here is how Smallhaul Scott did his;
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff66/scottmaxxin/end-tranny.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff66/scottmaxxin/tranfer2.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff66/scottmaxxin/motortrans.jpg

Of coarse a using different transmission would be easier, one with a built in transfer case. As they say there is more than one way to skin a cat.

[Snowman3725]

Very good stuff there, thanks. I see the tranny for a high lift f350 has front and rear outputs, but has a different mounting method. Maybe the cases are the same and I can swap them out, or make up some brackets

[Lil Giants]

This 6wd GL gets around great pulling a pup with all diffs open, of course the tires are a little bigger than stock, which helps I'm sure. I grafted a HiLift t-case on the back of a stock Tamiya 3spd. TLT front axle. Hand drilled the stock springs, which sit on top of the axel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/protrker/Jan%2014/009_zpsd3a91ef6.jpg

[Snowman3725]

Very cool. Are the cases for a highlift and KH the same?

[Lil Giants]

No, they're shaped differently.

Both these trks run the Wedico dual motor coupler with twin 12v Buehler motors. I was able to make an adapter so the stock semi trans would work, but the way the HiLift trans is made - no chance with that one.

[Snowman3725]

No Bueno. If you were going to make an awd rig with a 3 speed, how would you do it?

[fhhhstix]

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Cab%20over%20dump/IM000663.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Cab%20over%20dump/IM000664.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Cab%20over%20dump/IM000662.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Mack%20and%20dump%20trailer/IM000413.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Mack%20and%20dump%20trailer/IM000414.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Freightliner%20dump%20truck/100_0539.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Black%20dump%20truck/100_0136.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/CAT%20Truck/100_0936.jpg

[Snowman3725]

What kind of trans is that in the picture second from
Last?

[fhhhstix]

That is an RC4WD 3 speed but way over priced your better of with a high lift trans or a stock 3 speed and and an axial trans for a transfercase which also gives you a 3:1 gear reduction. If your fine with just one gear use an RC4WD R2.

[Snowman3725]

Thanks, didn't know rd4wd made 3 speeds, just saw 2 and the auto cvt. I just picked up a high lift but the mounts are different. I'm probably going to use spacers to lift the trans up as much as I can to get some more clearance. The 2 flanges on the bottom of the stock 3 speed that hold the case together sit right in front of the front axle input shaft. What are your thoughts on adding a small servo shift 2 speed hi low trans to get 6 speeds?

[fhhhstix]

6 speed does have a cool facter but most of the truck shows dont have enough room to show it off that well. Since you have the high lift trans just make some mounts and use it. The highlift trans is a great trans with more gear options than the stock trans.

[Snowman3725]

I'm using a motor mounted 7:1 gru to really slow it down. 6 or even 9 speeds would be awesome, well worth the investment in my opinion.

[Snowman3725]

Alright I've found a solution for anyone looking to get more than 3 gears and awd. RC4WD makes a 3 speed transfer case that I'm going to mount behind the stock tamiya trans and use a short driveshaft to connect the two. This should give me 9 gears using 2 3 way switches, just like the old twin stick in the real ones

[Claus]

That is an RC4WD 3 speed but way over priced your better of with a high lift trans or a stock 3 speed and and an axial trans for a transfercase which also gives you a 3:1 gear reduction. If your fine with just one gear use an RC4WD R2.


I have a transmission I bought from RC4WD probably 4 years ago, I know they don't make it anymore but it is a two speed. I thought it was an R2, looks like this;
http://tracgear.com/product/rc4wd/custom/transmission/R2/g11/3.jpg

What is it if not an R2? I also have an R2 single speed, wide gear, HD version.

[Claus]

Thanks, didn't know rd4wd made 3 speeds, just saw 2 and the auto cvt. I just picked up a high lift but the mounts are different. I'm probably going to use spacers to lift the trans up as much as I can to get some more clearance. The 2 flanges on the bottom of the stock 3 speed that hold the case together sit right in front of the front axle input shaft. What are your thoughts on adding a small servo shift 2 speed hi low trans to get 6 speeds?


If you want away from those bolts holding the case together you can buy an aluminum case that replaces the plastic one. I have one of these, there is no bolts in it at all. $65.00 on the ole eBay.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/jy0AAOSw37tWDAxW/s-l500.jpg

[Claus]

Izzy's daycab inspired me to build a Tamiya 2 speed with all the upgrades. So far I have bought the brass helical gears, stainless synchronizers, aluminum case and aluminum heat sink end plates. Not everything is here yet though. There are only two other upgrades I can think of, a new longer shaft so you can drive off both ends of the trans mission and a PMD 4:1 reduction. I shouldn't have spent all of this on this transmission, I should have just bought a Veroma 3 speed with built in transfer case and had a better transmission.

I did have a hair brain idea, what if you had the longer shaft and a reception on each end of the transmission? Would be cool, but too long and too expensive. Again Veroma!

http://www.gardentrucking.com/pix/Originals/t1225.jpg

And here is the Veroma;
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm186/C-Claus/HPIM3181_zpsa49a91e0.jpg

[Bo Wallen]

Great Decision...Veroma is the way to GO ! Top of the line. :cool:

[egronvold]

Have they improved the Veroma gbox? I know of people who've had trouble when using it in trucks pulling heavy dumptrailers.

[Claus]

I have never had any troubles but I have always babied my truck.

[Claus]

My Veroma is in my Wedico, thinking about putting one in a Tamiya.

[TRUCKMAKER]

AWD is definitely worth it if your going to run off road loaded or empty. If your going to build it and put it on a shelf or run it on pavement only on dry sunny days don't bother it's not worth the cost and build time.
Another less expensive but very strong option is using an Axial SCX10 transmission as your transfer case, you can pick them up on eBay for around $40.00. That gives you a 3:1 reduction. Connect it to the 3 speed as shown below. The stock silver can works fine and I wouldn't go any deeper than a 55 turn motor. I've hauled some pretty heavy loads on this with a heaping dump box and it runs through sandy soil with ease.

http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k561/truckmaker57/PTDC0015_zpsbzgaaltp.jpg.

http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k561/truckmaker57/PTDC0018_zps3umcjo2j.jpg

Note the GRU in this photo was removed and I've never ran it in this or any other truck.
http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k561/truckmaker57/fe6683e39fee40ff518d25558cb589c9_zpsmga99c9z.jpg

http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k561/truckmaker57/C56A33E2-2D54-4F2B-B467-222A6BD1F310_zpsxmoqb5bb.jpg

This is one fun truck to drive!

[Snowman3725]

If you want away from those bolts holding the case together you can buy an aluminum case that replaces the plastic one. I have one of these, there is no bolts in it at all. $65.00 on the ole eBay.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/jy0AAOSw37tWDAxW/s-l500.jpg

Perfect! I'll space the trans up 3/4 of an inch and use the case. That will give me plenty of room for the shaft going to the front to clear under the trans. Anyone ever used the rc4wd bullet 3 speed transfer case? I'm curious about the gearing. It says 1st is 1:1 and second is 1:9:1 gear reduced and 3rd is 2wd 1:1 Why would 2nd be lower than first?

[fhhhstix]

Perfect! I'll space the trans up 3/4 of an inch and use the case. That will give me plenty of room for the shaft going to the front to clear under the trans. Anyone ever used the rc4wd bullet 3 speed transfer case? I'm curious about the gearing. It says 1st is 1:1 and second is 1:9:1 gear reduced and 3rd is 2wd 1:1 Why would 2nd be lower than first?

Because it is not a true 3 speed it is a high low 4wd and high 2wd. Its a diconnect for when 4wd is not needed.

[Snowman3725]

Thanks Travis, I understand how it works, it's perfect for what I want to do, will give me 6 gears when coupled to a stock tamiya 3 speed with the option to go 2/4wd

[Snowman3725]

Simple question to make sure I got my gear ratios right. 1:9 would be 1 turn input equals 9 turns output. Wouldn't that increase the output speed 9 times? If it's a true reduction gear shouldn't it be 9:1 instead of 1:9?

[Claus]

The six speed concept is a cool idea but I don't think that transfercase is going to let you shift on the fly by any means. If you are wanting to replicate the old truck transmissions your effort is going to be lost in translation with that setup. Just my opinion.

[Lil Giants]

http://store.rc4wd.com/Bullet-3-Speed-Transfer-Case_p_3259.html

That would be 1.9:1, as in 1.9 turns input to 1 turn output.

[Snowman3725]

I'm glad someone is paying attention.

[egronvold]

Thanks Travis, I understand how it works, it's perfect for what I want to do, will give me 6 gears when coupled to a stock tamiya 3 speed with the option to go 2/4wd
I've only seen it in one truck, but that one had alot of slack. Add the slack in the stock gb, and it will be difficult to operate smoothly in terrain/ backing up to loading ramps.
Does anyone have other experiences?