Cable Shovel Build

[jerry56]

Well it's time to start building this.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52917320910_f3d409fe3c_z.jpg

I feel like I've learned enough to be dangerous so here goes my first cable machine if I can get this one right .... or close to it... I have a bunch more I want to do....
( disclaimer the dates and modeling information is just what I found on the internet they may or not be accurate I just took it at face value)

First this is a Structo front shovel from about 1953ish as far as I can tell, it appears to be modeled after the Buckeye Clipper from the late 30s early 40.
I want to keep the original look of the toy as much as I can and still make it functional, I will have to alter it but I want to keep it at a minimum. I will try to make it look as close to the Clipper as I can but may use a Priestman style boom and dipper configuration...
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52917320860_17ceae0aee_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916348887_4eda4e2ece_z.jpg

The plan is to cut the cab off the base so I can lift it off to get to the interior, I'm going with a lift off shell because I cant see any good place to cut the cab roof off and not have an ugly cut line out where it's really visible.
And since one set of line go thru little holes I'll either need to "slot" the cab or just open the front up completely

I got that part done, it went easier than i thought.... I used a dremel with a cut off wheel they welded this thing one in about 2 inch runs... no spot welds.The sheet metal is way to thin to use as the base so I'll have to make something...
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52917391668_d027a44681_z.jpg

The running gear is off the shelf Huina 1550 with the upgraded metal slew gear and motor. I wasn't up to try and scratch build this part....and this piece works pretty well.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52917391678_faee1d8e72_z.jpg

There aren't a lot of pieces to this thing....
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52917391663_7ece883250_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52917320855_0bb9766cda_z.jpg

I decided to just cut the front face out to expose the cabling drums and make it easier to lift the top off, it will impact the "streamlined" look of the clipper but I need to be able to easily get the cab off...
I 3d printed a base plate, it's 6mm thick, just a solid slab of PLA this way I could design in the openings for the slip ring and slew gear....
I just made it a square piece because the cab is kind of odd shaped and none of the corners were the same so I just printed a big square and hand cut the corners to fit.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916933951_6f2bf02a1f_z.jpg
The base, slip ring and undercarriage went together way better/easier than I thought they would..
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52917391678_faee1d8e72_z.jpg[
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52917085694_9ca9b0a6ea_z.jpg
I also needed to make a "dust" ring or collar to cover the slew gear on the Huina it's part of the cab base.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916348852_7868f1e646_z.jpg

[frizzen]

Very cool looking facing shovel! Can't wait to see what you've go in mind for this one.
Wow, i really expected there to be more parts to one of those.

I don't think you'll have a problem with getting it working. Once you understand the reeving, the old Cable Machines work pretty well.

[jerry56]

I keep going back to all that data you posted, looking at the way the different machines were configured. I feel like I have basic idea of how I want to reeve it.
Nope not much to it.

[jerry56]

I made some progress on the drum assembly... I started this part almost 2 weeks ago just took me a while to get it posted...
I started this before I saw the drawings for the Buckeye clipper so my drums aren't configured exactly correct but I was already well into it before I saw the drawings plus I had cut the cab so there was no turning back....
I cut 2 pieces of aluminum sheet to match the angle of the cab and notched the back to get over the slew motor..
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52917320795_674a2e385a_z.jpg

Then kind of sketched out where I hoped my drums would land... I kind of used the layout of frizzens Michigan crane and 3d printed my drums to approx the same size

I'll bolt up a couple pieces of aluminum angle to the front edges so I can bolt them down.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52917391628_89331be82a_z.jpg

I printed some spacers for the servos I'm going to use so I could space them back a little
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916348842_4dff35d543_z.jpg

When I printed the drums I put a 3mm recess in one end to center the round servo horn... the made the through hole about 6mm. so I could get a screw a
through it to screw it to the servo
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52917085624_d9b6daa4ba_z.jpg
6mm just happens to be the size of the ball connectors I'm using to support the other side of the drum.. I talked to Scott (smallhaul) at cabin fever and he didn't think I needed the off side support but I was chicken and added them anyway I'll re-evaluate before I do my cranes.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916933896_40b7ee604e_z.jpg

It all fit together like I hoped, which was a surprise
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52917085619_9244164cf4_z.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52917320755_a125b494d1_z.jpg
Now I just need to print some pulleys and figure out how I want to mount them on the boom and bucket.

[frizzen]

Cool looking servo rack! Looks like it's really coming together

I don't know if my Michigan crane actually NEEDED to have the other side of winch drums supported, i just thought it seemed like a good idea for as much boom as i planned to make it swing. Something about putting less stress on plastic servo horn. I know Smallhaul has a ton of experience working with Unit 357s, and even with the aftermarket Long boom extension have a little different leverage.

[jerry56]

That was kind of what I was thinking... It probably didn't need them but it seem like a good idea....

[frizzen]

Are you thinking of adding another small servo pulling cable to trip the dumping latch, or going to stay with something more like the original toy chain?

Also with the tapered edges on your winch drums, I'm wondering if your cable will want to wrap cleanly or want to climb up the taper and out of the cable bed?

[9W Monighan]

Use this design for your point sheave etc.

https://wirerope.net/azwr/wp-content/uploads/sheaves2.jpg

[jerry56]

Frizzen... I plan on a micro servo slipped in the dipper arm, I'll 3d print a latch similar to the orginal-ish and just pull it with some "cable" with either gravity or a spring to help push it back in to latch it...
I've been experimenting with boom hoist and dipper arm cable configurations and so far the drums have worked pretty well...just using cotton string it seems to wrap on the drums pretty even..
9W Monighan ... the sheaves are my biggest problem, I've tried several different designs and these are the ones I dislike the least not happy with them but they seem to work... I have found some different ones with a better cable groove (for lack of a better term) But I need to remix them to get the size and style I want... I wanted a more spoked look but I'm not great at using tinkercad so I went with the holes. the groove in these new one more closely match the ones you posted.....

One other question for anybody following... is the Buckeye Clipper in the pictures a pure white or do you think it's more of an off white.
I'm going to attempt the swoosh on either side, it looks like it might wrap around the back but I can't find any pictures of the back of the cab. I may just end it at the edge of the side...

[frizzen]

I don't know about that Buckeye Clipper livery, but here are some Repop ads from the company

https://www.americanikons.com/product-category/heavy-equipment/buckeye-traction-ditcher-co/
"Buckeye Traction Ditcher Company"

Swoops on both sides. . 1937 ad
https://imgur.com/GKQ7Ht9h.jpg
In the full resolution pic (copy url, remove h before jpg), check out the lower inset picture it top right. I think it looks like the upper shape probably stops on the cab curve, lower shape looks like it may run horizontal across back?

1945 ad
This model 50 had the house door open, but gives better hints about paint going around the corner
https://www.nesys.org/HCEA/AdPix/Buckeye_m.JPG

---

Pinstripes only. Model 70
https://imgur.com/02Wbf9fh.jpg

---
Bowling Green State University Library apparently has some good stuff in their archives
https://lib.bgsu.edu/finding_aids/items/show/134
--
USA millitary tech manuals for Buckeye 70s
TM 5-1197, TM 5-1198

[jerry56]

That's what I thought also....I may have to take some artistic liberty with that....
Those are about the best pictures I've seen....

[jerry56]

Time to figure out the cabling.... I made a pattern of sorts for a yoke to hold my boom and bucket sheaves, it's pretty basic since I'm not exactly sure of what I'm doing LOL
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916933841_f1aaa9feb6_z.jpg
I also made up some brackets to attach my sheaves to
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916933881_45acfd7b9c_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916933846_bc48749774_z.jpg
since this is just for testing I just used a little E6000 to glue the in place for now...
Getting the rigging done
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916348752_8445f2d328_z.jpg
This is a basic setup but it's not even close to the way a Buckeye 50 clipper should be but it is really clean and it works...
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916348757_c435042aa4_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52917320715_50bc27ae2c_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916933776_d780a5b98c_z.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916933771_6e936f9742_z.jpg

I'm just using cotton string to test with I have some black Kevlar string I plan on using ... I like this but it's not close to what it should look like.... but it works so I'll see about re-configuring it to something closer to what it should look like.
Still trying to figure out how to get the graphics on it... I'm no artist....
I'll up date once I get the next cable configuration done.

[frizzen]

I'm really digging how this looks with a boom and some lines.
Looks like you've got a great start at the reeving!

For a little more mechanical advantage and getting closer to pics,
I might want to print 2 more of the small pulleys, mount each one on outboard sides of the boom tips Hoist pulleys. Then move the "pulley that's currently lifting the boom" back to the house at top of winch rack as a line crossover.
So you would go from dead eye, boom, winch.
To more like dead eye, boom, house crossover, boom, winch

Can't wait to see this moving dirt

[jerry56]

That's kind of what I have in mind, plus that's more in line with how the Buckeye was cabled...

[frizzen]

There's a...Look "Mevac''... ad with a cable hoe that has really good paint detail at front of cab.

The 1937 "Engineering News Record" ad should let you get their correct font and logos to scale and send to be made as stickers / decals

[jerry56]

Sorry Frizzen not sure what I'm looking for with those leads... you have to 'splain it to me

[Krewmember]

Here is some ads I have found on the web.


https://i.imgur.com/n951Qf1h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/OiCPqfGh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/WTdWl5vh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XUSWhgih.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1pbtUx9h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CZGEHHgh.jpg


Hope this helps.


-Shawn-

[jerry56]

It does ... a lot... I think that MEVAC ad is the one Frizzen was talking about.. Thanks guys..

[frizzen]

Sorry about that, i'm having issues with this site security stuff. Hadn't ment for that to post yet, i'd started writing and had to do something else.

I'm happy that it's fairly easy to find stuff on your machine, searching for anything with my Crane just brings up funny looking bird pictures...

[jerry56]

Thanks to everybody who helped find this stuff... I searched Buckeye clipper but never saw any of this... So thank you ..!!!!
It's made me re-think a couple things I was going to to....
I've changed the cabling, and how I planned to cover the 4 holes the toy cranks left...
I have a friend that does T-shirt graphics that can make me a set of stickers but I have to come up with the image...I'm not as worried about the graphics right now cause I can add them any time....I'm really close to a test drive...
On a side note... keep all that crane stuff... It's probably next.. I found a video of the crane rolling up on a work site a long time ago but didn't book mark it and now can't find it....

[jerry56]

OK, I changed the rigging, this is more inline with how the clipper was cabled, still not exact but getting closer
I moved the boom hoist out to the boom tip
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916348702_5fc4f44bc6_z.jpg

Then went back down to the cab
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52917320685_1ecd56e05a_z.jpg

The pulley at the cab...
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916933756_eda24ea46f_z.jpg

I think this is the configuration I'm going with. I'll change the pulley at the cab to something smaller and refine the yoke a little.... I might move it up just a hair cause now at full boom up the cable rubs on the yoke... Minor things, plus I think I have some sheaves for the head of the boom I like better..
And!!! I have half of the swoosh for one side done ... pretty much... now if I could get paint to flip it to give me the other side that would be great.... for some reason the command to flip isn't working, not sure why but I'll get it figured it out

[frizzen]

That's really looking wicked with the more complex reeving!!!

Have you hooked up a Rx & battery to boom & stick yet? I know i wouldn't be able to resist...

Looking at the pics some more, Would your boom-line crossover cable pulley at the house be able to work if you mounted it on some wire in a kinda U shape, maybe with the wire poked through some holes in side plates above that top servo? Or would that get too deep into interfering with the body?

I hate when the Photoeditor doesn't work with Paint. Did you try using the "mirror'' command?
It's a whole lot easier than dealing with stuff like pounce pads... Especially easier than using tracing paper, pencil graphite, trace the line, copy the line, to other side, trace hard over side that goes against paint, align on body, scribble line hard, start tiny masking on the graphite ghost...

[jerry56]

:D I might have tried it a time or three....It works really well... I was surprised and the speed of the servos and slew motor are almost perfect ... to me anyway not to fast and not to slow.... I'll try and get a video here soon, the body work and paint won't be done but it's working....
The cross over pulley kinda sorta needs to be centered up where it is I'll either move it up 4-5 mm or take off a few wraps of that drum... It only needs 4 1/4 wraps from full up to full down and the dipper only needs 4 so if I can keep the cable just to the left of center it will be fine....I'll figure it out...
The "mirror" feature is what's not working not sure whats going on. As for the rest of that, it's kind of what I planned to do if all else fails pencil and paper and into the scanner a couple times

[jerry56]

OK don't judge the operator he sucks....
First time outside in the dirt, it was really humid and everything seem to "stick" so it's not very smooth ..
I do realize I need to add as much weight to the boom since it doesn't have a separate crowd you need boom weight to help push the bucket into the dirt...all little details I'll get worked out... I got the graphics done-ish and sent them out to see if she can make them into decals or stickers...
All you have to do is click on the picture and it will take you to Flicker then start the video...
https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/53014506872_768a5fcf32_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oLHcTW)239_0602 (https://flic.kr/p/2oLHcTW)

[frizzen]

That's being pretty harsh on your operator... poor guy doesn't even have all the windows to look out that a Buckeye Clippers had.

Your cable probably has a little too much 'spine', based on seeing it springing out of sheeves when it is accidently boom-jacking.
Everything should start to polish up and move a bit smoother once you get some more runtime on it.

Video looks really good for early learning a machine. Which control layout are you using?

The Clipper looks pretty nicely sized for loading the TournaRocker

[jerry56]

LOL I did better before I turned the camera on...
The string is just cotton string it's pretty flexible but it's just for testing I have some black Kevlar string I'll use...
The dipper needs some weight, it's not even heavy enough to drop to vertical on it's own. But as you said it will loosen up as I use it more...
I have the swing and dipper on the left stick and the boom and dipper release on the right, seems easier to run it this way.
The TournaRocker looked pretty good with it, actually both my Tonkas look pretty good next to it ... Stripped it to bare metal today getting it ready to paint and started doing all the little things that need changed Hope to have it done soon.

[jerry56]

Just a little update... been dragging my feet a little on this one, but I do have some mundane updates....
I decided to make "pins" to replace some of the bolts in the boom area....
I just took some SS3mm rod and cut it to the correct length then chucked it up in the drill, then took my dremel with a thin cut-off wheel and cut a groove in each end. The groove is a little wide but seems to hold pretty well. I only needed to cut it down about .3-.4mm for the e-clip to fit good and tight..
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53177601539_488bb23f36_z.jpg

Then I decided to see if I could do something to the boom to make it a little less toy like and a little stronger. It's only folded mild steel so it had a lot of flex and was easily twisted....

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53177320706_a946c96710_z.jpg

First I printed a piece to fit in the bottom of the boom so there was more material where the boom pin went through and used self tapping screws to hold it in place... that took the flex out of the mounting point

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53177320706_a946c96710_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53177520469_4dd3a1345e_z.jpg

Then I made two small "pillows" for the inside of the boom where the dipper mounts, so now the dipper has some surface area on either side that keeps it from wobbling from side to side.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53177816703_a57f44f739_z.jpg

The boom tip was just folded over on itself and a single tack weld to hold it in place... I took some 5min epoxy and poured it in the tip, about 1/8 inch or so deep this bonded the the end so it was one piece..
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53177520464_efa0a59826_z.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53176731052_624208fcae_z.jpg

Then I cut a piece of 22ga aluminum to cover most of the length of the lower boom. I used JB weld to glue it down. This took ALL the twist out of the boom and made it really rigid.. I was surprised and how well that thin aluminum worked, plus it makes the boom look a lot better..
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53177320691_80771034bf_z.jpg

I'm close to done just cleaning up some small things and painting stuff, waiting on my graphics, the swoosh has been the problem, I thought I had it but when she sent it back to me it was way to short, so we stretched it out a little and she is reworking it now.... Plus I realized if I have the door open on the right side most of the swoosh is gone and there is no place for the "winged globe".. so I'm trying to decided if I should leave it open and move the globe and deal with the missing swoosh or make a door and run the graphics over it.... If I close it up I lose the opening for my charging jack... not a deal breaker but inconvenient ...
Once I get the new swoosh back and finish up some details I'll post it up....

[frizzen]

I like your 'Double Spinamathing E-clipilizer' setup, looks way nicer than my 'drill & file' setup to do that with wobblier slots.

Boom enhancements sound really good on that C channel! (Trying not to joke about rigidity to an old boom.)

What if a guy made a slidey door to run inside the cab? Then you'd be able show off the graphics, let operator have some cooling, and battery access when it's time to take a break.

[jerry56]

I've thought about it.... You would still have to take the cover off to get to the battery...
Not sure how I would do a sliding door because the side isn't flat.. I'll ponder it for a while...

[frizzen]

If the cab wall around that door has a constant radius, it shouldn't be that hard to match that bend radius with the door and 2 tracks. Maybe look as using some Brass sheet and square tube, could even make a steel door if you feel hardcore.

But then i went back to look at pics, and that door isn't going to travel much forward before it needs corner removed, and aft looks like it goes flat to radius?

Maybe punch the charge jack down through the cab floor somewhere that overhangs the base?

[jerry56]

I don't think I'm going to get to "wrapped around the axle" on this.
I went back and looked at all the reference pictures you guys found for me and there seems to be some variation to the graphics... a little thicker, a little thinner, moved forward some a little farther back.. so I think I'm just going to wing it and put them on so they look right to my eye....

[ddmckee54]

If it's your shovel, and the paint job looks right to you, that's all that counts... Isn't it?

[jerry56]

Well... yeah... sort of I guess.... but I'd like it to look close to correct... LOL...

[jerry56]

OK... bout time to wrap this one up... the weather is cooling off a little so I'll be spending a little more time outside...
Just as a refresher this is what I started with
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52917320910_f3d409fe3c_z.jpg

And this is what I wanted to build...or close to it
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53191511950_4697a213b1_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53191681908_0fb8a8472c_m.jpg
And this is what I ended up with
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53191672918_438dbd5055_z.jpg

I had to make a few compromises along the way, the boom and dipper are fixed more like a Priestman Wolf... I would of had to make a whole new dipper, and I wasn't real wild about that since I wanted to keep as much of the original look as I could and still make it function...
It is said the original toy from 1953 was loosely modeled after the Buckeye Clipper 50 from the early 40s or so..so that's what I went with...
I put an aluminum backing plate in the bucket to help reinforce it and added about 6oz inside the boom so it would swing down better...
There are some differences but I think it's close enough for a toy....
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53191109574_dbc1231e14_z.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53190846622_17018b3db2_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53190846607_e6d7e7d690_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53191309696_cf81fcc289_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53191109634_4f0da49aab_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53190846627_6dbc464618_z.jpg

[Zabco]

Very nice job, I like it. Thanks for sharing.

[frizzen]

Great to see another of these cable machines finding work again. I'm really digging this shovel!!!

Looks great in the new livery.

The machine looks sweet, plus you know it's going to be the only one of that type at any meet, event, or dirt pile

[ReneDK]

It has become super cool.... And as I
said, you are definitely the only one in that color and model.

[jerry56]

Thanks everybody....
Yeah there are some Huina conversions out there to make a shovel but not many Buckeye clippers....