Aeromax AWD flat bed.

[fhhhstix]

I started this build to test out the Integy axles and as the title says it is an Aeromax with a flat bed, well sort of.

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/100_1859.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/100_1860.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/100_1854.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/100_1855.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/100_1863.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/100_1862.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/100_1861.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/100_1865.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/100_1866.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/100_1867.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/100_1870.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/100_1869.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/100_1871.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/100_1872.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/100_1868.jpg

Travis

[fhhhstix]

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Aeromax%20AWD%20flat%20bed/100_1873.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Aeromax%20AWD%20flat%20bed/100_1875.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Aeromax%20AWD%20flat%20bed/100_1883.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Aeromax%20AWD%20flat%20bed/100_1882.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Aeromax%20AWD%20flat%20bed/100_1881.jpg

And here is the sort of a flat bed part.

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Aeromax%20AWD%20flat%20bed/100_1888.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Aeromax%20AWD%20flat%20bed/100_1885.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Aeromax%20AWD%20flat%20bed/100_1884.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Aeromax%20AWD%20flat%20bed/100_1876.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Aeromax%20AWD%20flat%20bed/100_1878.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Aeromax%20AWD%20flat%20bed/100_1877.jpg

So when there is a trailer that needs a little more truck to pull it just pop off the bed and you have an AWD work horse.:D

Travis

[fhhhstix]

Good eye there Oztruck.:D It is one of many trucks I have in the build process.

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/MACK%20dump%20truck/100_1858.jpg

Travis

[woodhog]

Looks good there Travis:D Is the front axle cvd or something else?could you show turn radius full lock on both axles? where did you source them from?

[fhhhstix]

Looks good there Travis:D Is the front axle cvd or something else?could you show turn radius full lock on both axles? where did you source them from?

Chris they are form Integy or you can get them from Tower Hobbies as well.

When I was playing with the axle before I installed it the knuckles will turn about 70deg and still turn free so the only real limiting factor is the off set of rim and the tire hitting the springs. With a stock front rim and a round drive hub the track width is the same as a stock axle and the turning radius is better than stock.

Travis

[russisloud]

Nice, i've been wondering about those axles :)

[woodhog]

Ok thanks i did find them at integy.There is a set on the bay that has lockers on all 3 axles but they are higher than the integy ones:( Im wanting to build a truck to put one of Izzy's dumps on

[Espeefan]

Ahh, a Mack CH 6x6! Sweet! How many more of these cabs do you have? I tried getting a crate, but the seller wouldn't respond to emails....

[fhhhstix]

Ok thanks i did find them at integy.There is a set on the bay that has lockers on all 3 axles but they are higher than the integy ones:( Im wanting to build a truck to put one of Izzy's dumps on

I think you will like them.

Travis.

[fhhhstix]

Ahh, a Mack CH 6x6! Sweet! How many more of these cabs do you have? I tried getting a crate, but the seller wouldn't respond to emails....

I just threw the Mack out there since Oztruck ask about it. The Mack will just be a tandem drive with a dump box. I kept putting a dump box on my black Mack while I was building it and just could not resist building one. This is the only other one I have besides the Black Mack and I will tell you it cost me a good chunk of change to get it.:eek: We tried buying some of these trucks and every body has them in stock until you order them then they want to ship you some thing else instead.


Travis

[Stepside]

Travis tks for posting! Those axles look pretty BOSS!!!

Can you lock the axles?

[fhhhstix]

Travis tks for posting! Those axles look pretty BOSS!!!

Can you lock the axles?

Thanks Rod and I am sure you could lock them but I just have not taken one that for apart yet.

Travis

[crazy4yachts]

That looks really nice Travis good job man.


John

[Lil Giants]

And another powered steering axle with the tie rod on the wrong side of the axle!!! ...you guys, do you not peel the tires off in a sharp turn, nor do you notice how it seems to slide more than it carves? :rolleyes: :D

[Espeefan]

Joe, I'm not quite sure I understand the logic behind the tie rod location. Behind, or in front, what matters most is the proper ackerman steering geometry, isn't it?

[Lil Giants]

Yes you're right Nathan, the Ackerman principle. Tie rod infront completely screws that up.

[Snochaser]

I like the versatility Travis. Really good idea for someone who can't have several trucks, leaves the options open for several different functions. Thumbs up.

Ben

[ihbuilder]

Explain to me the logic behind how being in front or behind the axle makes a difference . Maybe because the way the modle axle is setup . But , in real life it doesn't make a difference as too the effect of the steering . I've seen it both ways . I believe the reason for tucking the tie rod behind the axle is more of a protection thing , whereas the axle is designed to take bending loads while the tie rod is designed for tensional loading . To put in simple terms that spinaly lil tie rod will bend fairly quick if it were to get snagged . As for sliding there are a# of factors : weight distribution , locked rears , length of truck . My paystar has the tie rod in the front , being it's long and heavy , I have no steering issue whatsoever . FWIW , it's no shelf queen

on edit : having review the Ackerman design yes in principal it should be in the back when ever possible . but also the position of the steering arm is critical to have the true Ackerman effect . If not followed , it ( in theory ) wouldn't make a difference as to what side of the axle you put the tie rod on . I would like to get a pair of these axle's just to see what can be adapted to them :rolleyes:

[Lil Giants]

http://www.beam-wiki.org/wiki/Steering_Techniques#Ackerman_Steering

http://www.beam-wiki.org/w/images/thumb/1/1f/Ackermann_Steering_Path.GIF/200px-Ackermann_Steering_Path.GIF

The pic above, say up is forward. Notice how the left tire (inside wheel of the turn) is so much sharper than the right? Then picture down is forward & you'll notice the opposite has happened.


I got this lil red dump trk that Freddy built, 1st load on it I peeled the tamiya floats off the rims (WTF?!). Thinking the floats didn't have enough sidewall strength, I changed them out to the Tamiya standard tire & the same thing happened.... turn the trk over for a look see & yep! tie rod infront! :rolleyes: Something else that I took note of was this shorter wheelbase dump couldn't make turn before the entry level to the wooden ramp by the water heater. My KH which is a 6x4 too & the w/b 3.25 inches longer does make the turn without backing up.

I built some hay wagons from semi truck frames, I turned the front axles around so the tie rod is in front, made it easy to cut the tie rod tube, weld in another ball joint & bolt each side directly to the hitch tongue for easy control of the steering... what a mistake!!! you should see this thing rip up the ground while turning sharp loaded, the two tires fighting each... ofcourse the wagons still make a reasonably sharp b/c the tractor pulling them ultimately decides that, but the outside tire of the turn really rolls up the dirt b/c it's way too sharp!

Heck, even my combine with rear steering has the tie rod behind the axle. Combine cuts pretty sharp going forward, much wider turn in reverse, it will not follow the same track.

Try putting your tie rod behind the axle Steve, I'll put money on it that it turns shorter & smoother.

[ihbuilder]

I'm about to make new knuckles for it doo to the weight I'm twisting the steer arm that you put the extension on for the drag link . on the FDM's and most real axles you have steer arms on the top and bottom of the axle . I'd like to doo the same to eliminate the extension . With a full load of logs , I might be taxing out the plastic axle . I just might put a pair of these on it . Would've been nice if the ratio was the same :( . But maybe these rears will werk better with my hendrixson walking beam :confused:

[Espeefan]

Cool first hand experience Joe. If I'm not mistaken, most 1:1 trucks with solid front axles have the tie rods in front of the axle, but they can still achieve the proper ackerman geometry. I think a lot of solid axle 4x4s are like this.

[mtloperator]

Depends on the application Nate . If the truck it's on is going to be in a severe inviroment where it could get bent easily they'll put it in the rear .

[fhhhstix]

And another powered steering axle with the tie rod on the wrong side of the axle!!! ...you guys, do you not peel the tires off in a sharp turn, nor do you notice how it seems to slide more than it carves? :rolleyes: :D

All of mine are this way and I have no problems at all. This one did really well on the test run and the only way to make it turn sharper would be to widen it up as the only thing stopping it is the tires hitting the springs. I don't glue my tires or anything and they stay on just fine it is all in what is inside the tire.;)

Travis

[woodhog]

Well what ya think of the axles?:D

[fhhhstix]

Well what ya think of the axles?:D

Well after some tweaking here and there I took it for a test run and it did really good. The biggest thing would be rims for the front. You can use a round pin drive with stock front rims and you get a lot of turning radius with the same width as a stock front axle. I used a stock Tamiya inside rear rim with an extra bead glued on for super singles. To use the rims I put together I had to shave the steering arms a bit and use thicker hexes to widen it up a bit but I still ended up with the same track width as a stock axle. I did give up some turning ability with the SS but I like the look of them better so I gave up some function for style.:D

Travis

[fhhhstix]

Here is a pic of the Tamiya TLT axle directly from the Tamiya web site. It is designed to have the tie rod in the front. Any body who has worked with them much knows the TLT does not have much turning ability any way due to the built in stops. If you modify the stops it will turn a little sharper but it starts to bind the axles since Tamiya did not put the pivot point of the shafts in line with the king pins either.:eek: But the Integy axles have the pivot in line with the king pins and it has twice as much or more turning capability.

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/TLTaxle.jpg

Travis

[Lil Giants]

So is the hilift axle, but they're both wrong with their steering geometry.

I use the tlt's in two of my GL's.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/protrker/IMG_0138.jpg

Try doing it with the tie rod behind once and measure the difference in radius of the turn. It's a hassle to raise the tie rod with spacers to clear the bell on the diff & make a wishbone to pivot off the top of the steering knuckle for the steering servo to remain in the stock position.

[fhhhstix]

Like I said I am good with it its not that big of a deal.:cool:

Travis

[Lil Giants]

What's that saying "lead a horse to water..."

But now it's becoming "beat a dead horse..", I know, won't mention again :D

[egronvold]

Nice setup. Does the new axles seems as though/ durable as the Tamiya axles?

[ptebbe]

In this application of small, lightweight, "low mileage" vehilcles where tire-life and turning perfomance are not life-and-death issues, the steering geometry is felt to be "good enough." One tire or the other scrubs a bit and the turn is not as precise as it could be but it's not a big deal.

In order to get the correct Ackerman Geometry with the steering linkage in front of the axle the tie-rod ends must extend out past the king-pin (pivot point.) Thus with the linkage behind the axle you can have angled-in steering arms but in front of the axle they just be toed-out. This puts them actually inside the wheels themselves, which is even more problematic in setting up the steering in our models. So we generally make due with "good enough."

[ptebbe]

Here's the best diagram I could find that shows why the steering arms in front vs in the rear of the axle are angled the way they are. I found this helpful.

[doodlebug]

Hey Joe, have you seen this style of tie rod? see the link for the Sisu steer axle, http://www.marmon-herrington.com/p/brochures/sisu/FSDP10S.pdf See page 2.
Cheer's, Neil.


So is the hilift axle, but they're both wrong with their steering geometry.

I use the tlt's in two of my GL's.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/protrker/IMG_0138.jpg

Try doing it with the tie rod behind once and measure the difference in radius of the turn. It's a hassle to raise the tie rod with spacers to clear the bell on the diff & make a wishbone to pivot off the top of the steering knuckle for the steering servo to remain in the stock position.

[grumpygrady]

morning folks ,
I know that when I had my IHC pick-up aligned they had to put wedges between the axle and the springs to get the caster and camber right ,
lets see caster is tilt of kingpin forwards and backwards and camber is tilt of kingpin inside and outside
this has a bunch to due with setting up the right angles for the Ackerman design
I can find out more and post it on the site if anyone cares
thanks
grumpygrady

[ptebbe]

Lil Giants: this looks like the right setup for correct Ackerman geometry to me. There are 2 challenges here as you mentioned: having the rear steering arm clear the driveshaft and the other is setting up a steering linkage from the original location of the servo (in front of the axle.)

Here a YouTube example of another ingenious solution: using steering arm extenders for a steering linkage in front of the axles. This moves the lever arm outward past the kingpins and into the inside of the wheels for correct geometry. When I look at my truck models the clearance inside the wheels looks very, very tight to do such a setup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9JsMhTA48Q

So is the hilift axle, but they're both wrong with their steering geometry.

I use the tlt's in two of my GL's.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/protrker/IMG_0138.jpg

Try doing it with the tie rod behind once and measure the difference in radius of the turn. It's a hassle to raise the tie rod with spacers to clear the bell on the diff & make a wishbone to pivot off the top of the steering knuckle for the steering servo to remain in the stock position.

[Lil Giants]

That's a great find on both the sketch & the video ptebe, both explain very clearly how to make a tie rod infront work correctly. Thank you for the edumacation. :cool:

[ptebbe]

I hate to beat a dead horse, but this steering geometry issue has intrigued me.

I found this product from Gear Doctor (Germany) which should make it easy to set up correct steering and keep the typical servo location. #20399. This is one of the upgrades to the Tamiya axle that they offer (along with lockable diffs.)

Looks like a good product.

Paul

[fhhhstix]

Here is a small update of the truck with a little paint on it.:bounce:

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Aeromax%20AWD%20flat%20bed/100_2116_zpsdbeb532d.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Aeromax%20AWD%20flat%20bed/100_2114_zpsd7820c68.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/brokenb4/Aeromax%20AWD%20flat%20bed/100_2117_zps667e8bcb.jpg

Thanks for looking.
Travis

[Tamiya Cowboy]

looking good Travis

[fhhhstix]

looking good Travis

Thanks, I need to work on my picture taking skills though. The truck look so much better in person.

Travis

[spudd]

killer paint job corky!!!!!!!!!!

[louie r/c nut]

Killer truck man

[Kaf343]

Awesome Travis, the paint is supurb