1/16 Oliver Dozer Conversion

[Rvjimd]

I thought I would start a new thread for my Oliver Dozer Conversion.

I took it out to the Pike Steam show, but it was basically a NO SHOW for the poor little thing. I had a problem with the blade control servo and the Pololu gear motors. So, I was about to start a dozer from scratch but decided to give the Oliver one more shot. I had a HiTec 225 servo on the bench and decided to see if I could make two of them work driving direct. If had to chop off more of the undercarriage and make a new set of brackets for the new servo motors.

I also decided to gut the servos so they are not really servos now, I took out the pot and use a ESC for each servo. I have not had much luck yet with converting servos without having them creep, so this method eliminates that problem.

There are other build photos in my original post that started out as a 1:50 dozer conversion.

Here is the first dirt bench test video! I either need a lower speed and higher torque servo, and or I need to tune the TX a bit more so I have smoother and slower control. If I slow down the end points much more then I don't get enough power. Stay tuned as I play with it some more.

http://youtu.be/GSbPNjdWb1U

Jim

[Rvjimd]

Two questions/problems. How to secure the pins in the "chain". For that I thought o would try to crush one end of the pin to it just gets snug when pushed into the hole. Other thoughts here are welcome. I am not sure how I'm going to deform the end of the pin? They are pretty hard piano wire and I cut them with a dremel tool so they came out fairly clean.

Second issue I have had from day one. When dirt collects between the pads they don't want to lay flat. I am tempted to cut off or shorten the pads on the front and trailing edges, but this may change the look significantly.

In the picture the pads are pretty clean, I just finished cleaning between the pads with a tool.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/IMAG0843_zps88bf86f2.jpg

Here is the other side still on the machine and NOT cleaned up. You can see how the dirt between each pad causes it to push away from laying flat. This can get so bad that the machine rides on a high spot and rocks fore and aft on the high point.


http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/IMAG0844_zpsf33cfe8d.jpg

Jim

[Cooper]

I was told to have 1.5-2mm spacing on track shoes. Originally I had them rather tight. They too sprang up bad. Re-milled every shoe to get 1.5mm spacing and it significantly reduced. Sometimes in mud or when I don't clean the shoes from the day before and dirt hardens they spring up but for the90% of time they lay flat. Keep in mind I'm fairly new to tracked machines.

[Rvjimd]

Cooper, is that on a machine about the same scale as mine 1:16?

Jim

[Rvjimd]

Here are two pictures of the current frame mod to accept the hitec 225MG servos. The angle parts are attached to the casting on the sides and the small brackets capture the servos. Working on a new set of brackets to go up to the 645MG servos. At this point the frame width is too narrow, not sure how I'm going to get the full sized servos in there?

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/IMAG0846_zps4f272aad.jpg

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/IMAG0847_zps2f371925.jpg

Jim

[1/50diecast]

I have the same problem with my dozer with the tracks clogging up. It is also stretching the tracks apart, and pins are starting to get loose. Im thinking of using M0.6 screws and nut to hold my tracks together. Here is a link to get the screws; http://metricscrews.us i have used them before and had no problems.

[1/50diecast]

I have also considered cutting my tracks where i blacked out the tracks, just leaving a lip on both sides for supporting the tracks from flexing to much. I hate them track kinks!
http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j459/nowherethere/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140902_170027_832.jpg (http://s1086.photobucket.com/user/nowherethere/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140902_170027_832.jpg.html)

[Rvjimd]

I know you guys are probably saying this thread is like "The Boy Who Cried Dozer".

I refit the dozer AGAIN this time with full sized HiTec 645MG servos. They should be much more reliable and the lower RPM and higher torque from previous mini servos make the control MUCH better.

I still need to figure out how to keep the track pins from wandering out. And I may have to come up with an adjustable servo tray so I can adjust the track tension. So far it seems to work great!

http://youtu.be/D-q3auNlvLo

Jim

[Rvjimd]

Wish this was easier to edit the sound properly...

http://youtu.be/GY0mmotp8lU

Jim

[TRUCKMAKER]

Nice Jim, it looks works and sounds great!

[modelman]

Jim-for some reason I missed this build thread. What happened to the pictures?

[Rvjimd]

I finally got around to creating a new dozer video with sound.

It had been a while since if had run the dozer and I think I should have NOT been using a 3S lipo, it made it faster than I remember and harder to operate. I think I probably smoked the RX. I Fahd forgotten that I eliminated the ESC...

http://youtu.be/B4jSvXfoKXg

Jim

[Rvjimd]

Well, I'm on a mission from God to try and do a motor refit on the little Oliver dozer in time for Brownsville. Just got started on it yesterday so that gives me about 10 days or so to work on it.

I had been running this with servos, but thought I could do better now that I have a better selection of machine tools to work with.

Going to use these two gear motors and a esc. Really hacking up the rear end of the poor thing so it will be interesting to see how it goes.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/C199863E-AEAD-468E-958C-B5FC3DF56AD4_zpsgbcch35h.jpg

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/6F338611-7C76-4C48-BF36-438358FF3EE8_zpsynguxk9c.jpg


Jim

[Rvjimd]

Got the new undercarriage all assembled. Now I need to figure out how to attach the hood and operator/seat. Then, how to store and retain the lipo, RX and motor controller. If all goes well, this might be moving today.:p oh, ya, still need to mount the blade lift servo.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/4E3DE832-3069-4F94-AD2C-1CC0DBC2A784_zpsnbp8e99t.jpg

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/6D845282-17E1-407B-B5B4-DCF1A8AF2AC5_zpsidoxpf5y.jpg

Jim

[Rvjimd]

Help with motor controller...

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/CCFD356C-1AA1-4BBC-8E19-6DA169E27C7C_zps0ovctktx.jpg

I used one of these 2x5 RC controllers in my crane and had trouble figuring out how to use the bec. I finally gave up and used a separate battery for the RX and servos, while using the 2x5 for the drive motors. I clipped the red wires from each RX connector on the 2x5. I had all sorts of space so the extra battery wasn't a problem.

The dozer is a different story, not so much extra room under the hood, what with the giant horsepower I got in there now! :p

So, is this just supposed to plug into the RX and provide power to the RX thru one or both of the motor control wires?

They don't really describe too well how it is supposed to work. I don't remember exactly what it was doing on the crane, but I got tired of messing with it and gave up.

I am waiting on a reply from dimension...

Jim

[Rvjimd]

Short video of the first test run of the new drive train on the Oliver dozer! I was trying to holde the batteries out of the way and film at the same time, so I didn't get a good shot of the travel clip. :p

http://youtu.be/dAYsd7rUWPo

Jim

[FabOne]

GREAT job Jim! Keep us updated.

-Terry

[9W Monighan]

The BEC comes from the wires you plug into your RX to Sabertooth. When the main battery powers up the Sabertooth the leads have regulated 5VDC for the servos or RX.
I'm not looking at a wiring diagram but that is basically how it works.

[TRUCKMAKER]

Nice job Jim! Looks like you have all kinds of power, now hopefully there is enough weight to put on the ground.

[Rvjimd]

I got a reply back from the help desk of the motor controller. My gut reaction tells me that it doesn't really put out the amps to the RX like they claim. But, it also doesn't seem to like the hitec 645 mg servo. I plugged in an old Futaba servo and it seems to work, if it will lift the blade like the hitec is another story yet to be determined.

I had exactly the same trouble with my dragline using the same controller and same servos. I solved it on the dragline by using a separate battery and power supply for the RX and rope servos.

I spent most of the afternoon figuring that out. By the way, according to the specs for the hitec servo, it SHOULD work with the 2x5 motor controller so somebody doesn't know there own product. Very frustrating afternoon.:mad:

Arg...

[Rvjimd]

I think it is going to work. I have one real loose and one tight side and at this point no good way to control tension. This particular die cast uses springs on the front rollers for tension but the travel is short and not designed for this sort of use. I haven't figured out just how yet, but I plan to make the rear motor pod adjustable in some sort of sliding action.

The blade lift servo seems to do okay, more testing required. Really frustrates me that the specs of the sabertooth controller and spec of a hitec 645MG indicate that it should work fine, but obviously that ain't true! FYI, even when I ran a separate bec for the RX from the same power source it acted the same way. So, that makes me think the sabertooth is putting out some funky RF causing the RX to act up. All this behavior is while the servo is sitting idle, so it must really be drawing some power even idle?

I should have also mentioned that if the RX is powered by a different battery completely isolating the RX, AND servo from the motor controller that then it all works. This is exactly how I ended up doing it in my crane. Don't have room for a second battery in the dozer.

Anyhow, enough bitching, here is the bench test video!:rolleyes:

http://youtu.be/rMa8AcXsnow

[Rvjimd]

Here is a short video of the first test run in the dirt. I am out of practice and i have to solve the loose track issue. Otherwise I think it is going to be usable.

http://youtu.be/T1b-CVwDljI

Jim

[TRUCKMAKER]

It looks good in the dirt, seems to have plenty of push. I have no experience with those motor controllers but have a couple trucks with 645 servos and they are serious power hogs. I run a receiver battery in the trucks that have them so I don't notice it.

[Rvjimd]

It keeps getting better...:p

Today I put bearings in the main drive assembly. I'm sure that will help runtime and power to the dirt. Added a dual rate and slowed it down to about half speed so I can control it pretty well when pushing. This way I can hold the stick full forward and steer, while running the blade with the other stick.

I think I might have a bit of descent footage finally! :rolleyes:

http://youtu.be/-n_qGyaEwGU

Jim

[SonoranWraith]

I'd go with a separate BEC so when you are under load or possibly even stall the motors you don't have issues. If you run a separate BEC, you would not use the power wires from your esc to the receiver. Also I note that your diagram had a flip channel which is mostly used for bots. It can be used to drive in reverse easily but can just as easily be left unused. Cheers.

[Rvjimd]

I hope I don't jinx myself but I think I figured out the problem I was having with the sabertooth!

First I have to say, I can't believe the dimension engineering help desk never asked or suggested this... All I got from them was some nonsense about regen and battery capacity, they even suggested that I try a 2000mah battery:p Ya, where am I gonna put that sucker in is tiny dozer?:confused:

Anyway, maybe this will help folks with similar trouble.

I was about to see if a slot car motor would replace the motor on the back end of my gear drive units when I realized the carrera digital motors always use capacitors across the motor leads to suppress noise. So I shortened the motor leads as much as I could, added a cap to the pos and neg poles and grounded them to the can. I also wrapped the signal wires from the blabber tooth to the RX with foil.

Here is a link to one site that I referenced to help with the solution.

https://www.pololu.com/docs/0J15/9

If you guys are thinking, "I always add capacitors to my brushed motors" you won't hurt my feelings if you say so. I just never even thought about it, but it makes sense now! I used to race associated 1/10 scale pan cars on a paved oval and we NEVER installed the caps on the motors back then and that was with old Futaba fm radios and old novak speed controllers.

I have run two battery packs with not a hint of trouble.

I bet on a bigger conversion where stuff is not literally right on top of each other, the problem might not happen.

When the blade servo had the jitters before, I always thought, that seems like radio interference?

Thanks for putting up with my rant...:rolleyes:

Jim

[Rvjimd]

I need to apologize for the terrible video quality, but I was not able to load it directly from the sad card due to the resolution or some hogwash so I took video of the video using my phone from the iPad. Nice:p

Anyway, it started raining here this am, since naturally I figured out my trouble with the dozer and really wanted to give it a good test outside but can't.:o

So, moved a small dirt pile into the shop to test out the rewired electronics! It is working great! :cool:

Here is a time lapse shaping the dirt pile, this took me about 5 minutes I think...

http://youtu.be/2ZsPuKlSZDM

[TRUCKMAKER]

That's a pretty good video, if for no other reason but comedy relief! :lol::lol: Glad you got it figured out, looks like a lot of fun!

[Rvjimd]

Here is another video, I cranked this one up to 4x using the editor...

http://youtu.be/dvh2xbz_Qdk

Jim

[Rvjimd]

New motors for the diecast Oliver Dozer!

Here is a very short Timelapse video of the first test with the new motors.

https://youtu.be/o-xMCmtyr0Y

I broke another one of the economy gear motors in the Dozer at cabin fever this year so the plan was to try the planetary gear version. I had the Dozer on the bench since January and FINALLY got around to installing the new motors.

I had to make a bushing/sleeve for the new motors because they are just a tiny bit smaller diameter and didn't fit into the existing motor mounts, so got those made on the lathe.

Another problem I had with this project was with the sabertooth motor controller. I finally added capacitors to the motors and that solved it, BUT, as I installed the new motors I decided to try powering the new motors WITHOUT the caps and so far the seem to operate with less electrical noise and I didn't have the same trouble! So, if you are using the economy gear motors from servo city I would recommend adding capacitors to control the interference noise that causes problems for the sabertooth. And, the motor can of the new planetary motors looks different and I suspec it is a little better quality motor. Time will tell...

For those interested here is a link to the old spur gear motors and another link to the new planetary motors at Servocity.


Old spur gear motor - https://www.servocity.com/56-rpm-econ-gear-motor

New planetary motor - https://www.servocity.com/52-rpm-premium-planetary-gear-motor

And I have a question about these motors for you tech type guys-

As I post the links I expected to see a higher torque vale for the planetary motors but that is not what I read? Is this based on the motor more than the gear style and ratio?

Jim

[Rvjimd]

I was having too much fun so I made another short dirt pushing video.

https://youtu.be/WlxGPWZ8s5I

Jim

[Rvjimd]

Anyone ever find a good way to reduce the dirt pack between the track pads on a crawler machine?

I know this is common, I have tried waxing the pads and I think that helps for a bit.

Also, when I run on extremely dry dirt there is almost NO problem. But, if the dirt Has a little moisture in it the leading AND trailing edges get the dirt packed on them causing the pads to heave away from each other. The biggest trouble this causes my machine is that it becomes hard to blade a nice even level grade cause the track start to get a round curve to them and the entire machine will rock fore and aft while moving forward. This makes holding the blade constant very tricky.

Anyhow, I'm just thinking out loud and....

This is just after cleaning
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/847719bab45f805a117545c4b4695582_zpsnsktdv52.jpg

Here is a shot from the back, showing the bevel gears and you can see the bushing I had to make to fit the new motors.
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/7309351d481bc8cd1b49b932359efffc_zpsynmalnpf.jpg

Side view of one of the new motors installed. The bushing hides the gearbox section of the gearmotor
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b554/Slotcarjim/edd8bd34db2cca6d4a4c863de914e049_zpsyidvezfj.jpg

Jim

[Rvjimd]

Video of the little Oliver working the sand pile at the barge dock.

https://youtu.be/W7rCP09_O5U

Jim

[egronvold]

Little, but strong and effective :)

[skeeter]

I finally got around to creating a new dozer video with sound.

It had been a while since if had run the dozer and I think I should have NOT been using a 3S lipo, it made it faster than I remember and harder to operate. I think I probably smoked the RX. I Fahd forgotten that I eliminated the ESC...

http://youtu.be/B4jSvXfoKXg

Jim

NICE Dozer you have there! I wish I could scratch build something like that, but I'm not that skilled with metal working

[Rvjimd]

Skeeter, thanks.

It is a diecast model that I converted to RC. I had to do a bit if simple machine work for the motor mounts and bearings on the drive axels but it wasn't too bad.

Jim

[Rvjimd]

Getting ready for Brownsville, can't wait!

https://youtu.be/BIoVD9Tmr6Y

Jim

[Cooper]

jim , only thing I have found out with dirt packing in between pads is to enlarge clearance. scale wise the pads would be about a half millimeter apart. like you said when dirt is dry it usually isn't a problem. what happens is the small particles of dirt stick together and they don't have enough room to be pushed out of the way and become lodged in. think of it like having a one inch hole with 3/4 inch marbles, they will pass through one at a time but when two are side by side they get lodged. now having a 3 inch wide hole with same 3/4 inch marbles it is less like to get several to line up in a way they jam. like on my dozer the track pads look far apart but it prevents the dirt getting jammed. more fun to run the dozer rather than dig out the tracks. and also I see a lot of people getting the tracked machines fouled with dirt from simply turning too sharp or pushing dirt into tracks (like with the excavators) in the 1;1 machines a good operator will try to keep any loose material from spilling into track links. yes most of the time the machines will simply crush any rock or dirt out of the way but that is hard on equipment. on our toys, they just simply don't have the ability to push or crush any debris and usually end up jamming or breaking something on the machine. I think it would be equivalent of having softball sized pieces of tool steel for the 1;1 machines, sooner or later something on the machine is gonna jam or break.


love youe dozer, sure has pushed is share of material!!!

[Rvjimd]

Thanks Cooper, I was planning to do some more video today, but I have been struggling with fusion 360 trying to design and print some brackets for the hopper on the short conveyor.

ya, I tried milling off a bit of the leading edge of a few tracks but these little suckers are so small and hard to hold. I just seem to end up cleaning tracks as needed. It is really interesting seeing how good or bad it can be depending on the type and moisture content of the dirt.

PS it just dawned on me and I tried it out in thingiverse, HO Scale, O Scale there is all sorts of stuff that the model train guys have done!

Jim

[frizzen]

Cool video. I really like watching your job site.

For machining i'm unskilled with generally unsuitable tools... but to open up the track pads how about leave it linked together on machine or a track jig, then take a dremel/diegrinder with a cutoff wheel (or two stacked) lightly run between them to gain clearance?

[bobmorey]

I've used the Sabertooths for other projects. Usually they work fine, but I think the 2X5 would be a bit underpowered for what you want to drive tracks and a servo or two. I'd use a bigger one 2x12. As 9W Monighan pointed out, the receiver get its power from the 3 wire plugs going into the receiver - one of those wires (red) is power. You should not need a separate battery for the receiver. I did have a case where I was using a 2x25 for a tank project - and either the ESC was underpowered (wasn't according to their specs) or the thing was defective. It would not move the tracks at all consistently, so I traded it for a 2X60 and it works fine.

I use a 2x5 like that to power a 12V turret rotation motor and it works ok. I power the 2x5 from the main track driver 2X60.

Awesome little dozer conversion though! Love it!
B

[1/50diecast]

Your project is turning out really well! Awesome conversion!