Progress Thread - 8750 Marion Dragline

[TylerDSAudi]

Finally had some time handy and was cleaning the shed out to get to the MDF I was needing to start my dragline project. I want to build an all custom dragline, so it looks and acts like the real thing.( before anyone ever comments that this isn't as detailed and such, I'm building this as a fun project and one I can make last years, not one that as detailed as some as I have seen amazing! But I will be trying to put in as much detail as I can without making it a model more then less a working toy ;P . Im going to need some help along the way, so any comments or idea's are welcomed! Please and thank you!

This is a progress thread as I will update it as I go, so keep checking back on progress and give me your input. I work in a coal mine and we have 4 Draglines, I am basing this build of of our Marion 8750 " Lady Of the Lake" second biggest dragline we have and one of my favourite draglines to be around!


Start:

Starting with MDF, I have a simple plan for the house, to just build a box with the curves I need to build the main part of what will be the house.







I picked up some Aluminium to start building the boom. Im going to be using an angle bar for the outside of the boom and thin tubing to give it structure and bracing it all together. Have a plan in my head, just have to cut it all out and lay it out. Now I'm not a welder, but i have done a fair amount of fooling around. Playing around on the Tig the other day on scraps I found this is going to be quite the challenge to get this all tac together without melting any of it. So before I decide to Tig it all together, i might look into other ways to put it all together.

[TylerDSAudi]

Hello,

So in the past I was going to make this dragline RC cause I have a ton of speed controllers, motors, servos, ect... But there was two big reasons that made me push away from the idea. 1) battery supply, to do what I need to do I'm going to have to run acoiple good size lipos and always worrying about charging them. 2) controls, I do not have the know how to take apart these controls and build my own controls out of them ( as I have to have joystick type controls for realism as I am currently working toward dragline oiler trainning)

Now I've seen builds and a lot people seem to be running these off a 110v power source, so I came up with the idea of maybe using a power supply of 110v and decreasing it to a 12v for the motors and such. ( this would be my switch shack) from there I would run my power to controls and to my dragline. That way the dragline has a power cable like real life and no worry about battery's.

Now the question is, where can I get a 4 position momentary switch type joy stick that won't kill the bank that I can wire to this dragline? If you have any thoughts on power supplies, wiring or any input I'm all ears on doing it a better way!

Here are the "joy stick " type controls I have found so far the best thing in my mind, but idk about the voltage and amps ect..

http://www.amazon.com/Position-Momen.../dp/B009IUMG78
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B009IM...PBYDRSRKDFTPMY

[nenard]

What scale are you building in? Its gonna be awsomely huge!

[9W Monighan]

Nice to see another cable machine here. My favorite.
Look over my 9W build and you will see just about all you need to know on how to power one. Look towards ebay for motors drives master switches slip rings ect. I would have spent way more if I couldn't have obtained my parts from ebay. There was lots of time and money spent with trial and error too. My system for 90VDC motors works very well and never gives any problems. I really like the 4 quadrant regenerative drive system. Read up on that. I don't know much about the smaller voltage motors. I think the 4Q drives can be bought from one of the robot parts suppliers but may cost more than the 90V ones listed practically a dime a dozen on ebay. There is tons of cheap motor drives out there for that. But remember, the smaller voltages draw more current so a heavy duty slip-ring will be needed. You may need to add flywheels on the smaller motors too to duplicate the dynamics of the motions so you don't end up with a big pendulum swinging back and forth.
I get some time, I'll take some pictures of my collection of master switches that will work.

[modelman]

TYLERDSAudi-nice to see someone building a dragline. From your explanation I'm not sure what you are trying to do with the controls. R/C controlled or hard wired? These joysticks claim to be radio ready-
https://www.servocity.com/html/joystick_modules.html
I haven't heard of anyone using these but they might work. Post lot's of pictures.

[TylerDSAudi]

Originally Posted by nenard

What scale are you building in? Its gonna be awsomely huge!

The scale I haven't worked out just yet. When i started building this dragline i looked all over the internet for the 8750 specs for all the measurement to go off, but all the webpages I had problems loading. Was browsing the other day and found all the info i needed..... SO now, i will be using those as references and will compare those measurements to my machine to have a scale for it. I just built it the size i felt good about.

Originally Posted by 9W Monighan

Nice to see another cable machine here. My favorite.
Look over my 9W build and you will see just about all you need to know on how to power one. Look towards ebay for motors drives master switches slip rings ect. I would have spent way more if I couldn't have obtained my parts from ebay. There was lots of time and money spent with trial and error too. My system for 90VDC motors works very well and never gives any problems. I really like the 4 quadrant regenerative drive system. Read up on that. I don't know much about the smaller voltage motors. I think the 4Q drives can be bought from one of the robot parts suppliers but may cost more than the 90V ones listed practically a dime a dozen on ebay. There is tons of cheap motor drives out there for that. But remember, the smaller voltages draw more current so a heavy duty slip-ring will be needed. You may need to add flywheels on the smaller motors too to duplicate the dynamics of the motions so you don't end up with a big pendulum swinging back and forth.
I get some time, I'll take some pictures of my collection of master switches that will work.

9W Monighan, I have looked over your build many times over and over and I don't even know what to say because Im so impressed with the type of work you do! Your machining and attention to detail is amazing! Im going to need a lot of help on these electronics as i do not know anything at all about this stuff. I just want to be able to run a joy stick type for operational controls and run it off 110v power so I'm not worried about battery power constantly. If you help me out with that it would save me a lot of time and money like you said then playing around with stuff that won't work in the end.

Originally Posted by modelman

TYLERDSAudi-nice to see someone building a dragline. From your explanation I'm not sure what you are trying to do with the controls. R/C controlled or hard wired? These joysticks claim to be radio ready-
https://www.servocity.com/html/joystick_modules.html
I haven't heard of anyone using these but they might work. Post lot's of pictures.

Got to dragline, only way to clear material :P. I was going to build this dragline as an RC operated unit with speed controllers, batterys, remote and such, but after thinking about batterys dying and always charging them it turned me away from it a bit. Mostly i wanted realistic joystick controls as well and an RC remote isn't going to cut it for me. I just posted those 2 joysticks as an example, as they are the only thing i found so far that are 4 position like i need, joystick type and can be hard wired too. My plan is to run 110v plug in.

Those joystick you posted look really nice in position, they are little more pricey but whatever works I guess.

[9W Monighan]

You said you work at a mine as an oiler. You should be able to get all the dimensions you need from your company's engineering or maintenance dept. IF THEY WILL LET YOU. maybe you can say it's advertising to the company.

I see the joysticks Tom linked. Like I said earlier; I don't know much about this stuff. I do know there is lots more available these days than when I started out. Maybe this stuff is heavy duty enough to handle a large duty cycle. Depending on how big you're machine will be, remember it's going to have to work very hard handling a bucket full of dirt swinging 10feet way. Thats the case for me. Each bucket weighs about 12-15lbs and with my overkill in my electrics, there is never any overheating whatsoever.

[TylerDSAudi]

Originally Posted by 9W Monighan

You said you work at a mine as an oiler. You should be able to get all the dimensions you need from your company's engineering or maintenance dept. IF THEY WILL LET YOU. maybe you can say it's advertising to the company.

I see the joysticks Tom linked. Like I said earlier; I don't know much about this stuff. I do know there is lots more available these days than when I started out. Maybe this stuff is heavy duty enough to handle a large duty cycle. Depending on how big you're machine will be, remember it's going to have to work very hard handling a bucket full of dirt swinging 10feet way. Thats the case for me. Each bucket weighs about 12-15lbs and with my overkill in my electrics, there is never any overheating whatsoever.

Yeah i wish it was that easy, I would have had to go through all the lawyers first, then civil departments ect... I have them looking into me using the colours, name and they want their company on it if i do, which I am totally fine with. One of my fav draglines of all time!

Yeah, I just need a lot of help on the electronics end. I do know anything on these subjects of all these haha. I do want to make it as simple as I can. AS little stuff i need to make it all work, that makes less go wrong in my mind.

[Rvjimd]

This sounds like a good approach to the project. I think you indicated something between toy and scale model? I like to try and keep stuff simple when I can and if it doesn't over complicate things I do stuff so it looks "sort of scale". I think there are some projects that stall during construction because of over optimistic ideas at the start. I know this from experience and even my current crawler project which I don't claim to be very scale or detailed is just complicated enough to make me groan and nearly give up at least once a day!

So, keep at it, I like it already! I have all kinds of MDF, never thought of making something that big and using MDF for part of the project.

Take lots of pictures and keep em coming!

Jim

[TylerDSAudi]

Originally Posted by Rvjimd

This sounds like a good approach to the project. I think you indicated something between toy and scale model? I like to try and keep stuff simple when I can and if it doesn't over complicate things I do stuff so it looks "sort of scale". I think there are some projects that stall during construction because of over optimistic ideas at the start. I know this from experience and even my current crawler project which I don't claim to be very scale or detailed is just complicated enough to make me groan and nearly give up at least once a day!

So, keep at it, I like it already! I have all kinds of MDF, never thought of making something that big and using MDF for part of the project.

Take lots of pictures and keep em coming!

Jim

Thank you! Yeah mine has done that to me I'm always over thinking everything and changing designs and how I want to do steps in the build, but that's why we do this cause we're crazy people . I'm building this as a working model and toy to play with. Once it works how I want it, then I can start adding detail for the model scale side like railings, vents ect..

MDF is my favourite wood to work with for things like this, as you can shape it how ever you want! Great wood to do things like this and the house so far isn't too bad for weight either!

[TylerDSAudi]

I have had these on order for a bit and was looking to use them for my build. They are a bigger brushed motor like a 550 with built down stepped gear boxes. I was thinking of using these and building drums onto the shafts or mounting a big gear and building a big drum with a gear on it to rotate it.

These were ordered when I wanted to build it RC and hook these up to a speed controller, but i do want to change plans with your guys help. But without the know how or parts I need to buy I will be lost.

[SonoranWraith]

You can still run the model with radio control but use shore power. You can use many different units to get AC to DC, like an old computer power supply or search ebay and there are a lot of choices. You could mount inside if you have room (there never is) or have the DC conversion on the shore side and run the line to the model. Wired works too just more cable.

[TylerDSAudi]

Originally Posted by SonoranWraith

You can still run the model with radio control but use shore power. You can use many different units to get AC to DC, like an old computer power supply or search ebay and there are a lot of choices. You could mount inside if you have room (there never is) or have the DC conversion on the shore side and run the line to the model. Wired works too just more cable.

see I was thinking of using a computer power supply cause that plugs into 110v and then you'll have to convert it to whatever voltage you need. I would like to mount the power supply and such in a box ( switch shack ) like a real drag and run a cable to the shovel! Maybe I convert a small backhoe to move cable around

[speedy8305]

This looks interesting but as far as the guys commenting on "Realness" & "functionality" they aren't cruel like that but what they actually do is give good advice and help so I hope this build meet your expectations cause you are the critic on this project but keep up the good work look like its gonna be great

[modelman]

TYLERDSAudi-I would NOT use a computer p.s.. I did that on my dragline and it worked for a while but only after adding chokes, capacitors, etc. but then it finally quite. The computer p.s. does not like electrical noise and you will have plenty of that with your electric motors. The p.s. will shutdown when you try to start a motor. Just my opinion but my experience with this was BAD!!! Another suggestion-you can get cheap AC to DC power supplies at radio shak in a lot of different voltages.

[TylerDSAudi]

Originally Posted by modelman

TYLERDSAudi-I would NOT use a computer p.s.. I did that on my dragline and it worked for a while but only after adding chokes, capacitors, etc. but then it finally quite. The computer p.s. does not like electrical noise and you will have plenty of that with your electric motors. The p.s. will shutdown when you try to start a motor. Just my opinion but my experience with this was BAD!!! Another suggestion-you can get cheap AC to DC power supplies at radio shak in a lot of different voltages.

Good to know! Thank you! I have been looking over your build as well! I'll look into those at radio shack for sure!

[TylerDSAudi]

Update:

Today started on the Brazing process of the boom. Cool little process as easy as soldering, very similar to ox welding. You can do it with a propane torch, just heat your metal up for a couple minutes and every now and again drag the filler rod through what your trying to fill. If it doesn't melt its not ready, when it does your good to go. Went by every easy and way better then trying to rig tac all this tiny metal that wants to melt away so fast! It will easily hold for what I'm doing.


Next will come figuring out what i want the middle brace to be which will be the max height between the two sections of boom. I then will work my way up towards the tip of the boom making the bracing ever so smaller. After i will try to do the same thing, but if there isn't as much leeway I would rather the boom go from thin at the top and wider at the bottom if i can't go from thin to thick to think because of they way to metal wants to bend. Should be a fun little project at least 2 hour min.

Im looking for little metal wheels *point shives* to use for the top of the boom, bottom to weave the drag rope through and a set in the A frame area for the hoisting rope. I will need 8 in total. Let me know link, cheapest is always the best

[modelman]

TYLERDSAudi-why don't you try to reduce the size of your pictures. I don't think there is a link for the pulleys you need. Those you will have to make or have made. If you are looking to build cheap, this may not be the best project for you. Even modeling is very expensive these days. Some of your parts will have to be custom made-($$$$). Motors and electronics-($$$$)-I wish you luck-maybe it can be done.

[TylerDSAudi]

Originally Posted by modelman

TYLERDSAudi-why don't you try to reduce the size of your pictures. I don't think there is a link for the pulleys you need. Those you will have to make or have made. If you are looking to build cheap, this may not be the best project for you. Even modeling is very expensive these days. Some of your parts will have to be custom made-($$$$). Motors and electronics-($$$$)-I wish you luck-maybe it can be done.

That is the size that they get uploaded up as, I tried to downsize them with no luck. There's a difference in building cheap and building cheap with no money. One of my talents in sourcing stuff from big names to the little guys, with half the price and sometimes better quality. The pulleys have had no luck in finding as the closet thing I have found with a grove in the middle for the rope is tank wheels, but very slim pickings at best. I have found a set of plastic wheels that I'm using for mock up, but over time I would like to replace them with metal sets. I'm hoping to mostly be able to buy everything I need to speed up the build and if I can't buy it then I will make it over time.

[SonoranWraith]

You can have photobucket resize your pics when you upload them. Are you going make a jig?