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  #21  
Old 06-27-2013, 09:42 AM
Rvjimd Rvjimd is offline
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

Well, after some testing on the bench, it looks like with my 1/4" wide by 1/4" diameter drum I get about 8" travel from one shoulder to the other. I'm using a heavy thread for cable. If it is simple math/ratio I'm going to need about a 1" wide drum. Hum, need to look at the dock and see if I'm gona like that? Not sure if the leverage on the end is going to be a problem? Would need to mount it in a carrier bracket.

Jim
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  #22  
Old 06-27-2013, 10:23 AM
Rvjimd Rvjimd is offline
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

Here are a few pics and a video of the dock side testing of the barge winch system.





http://youtu.be/9hnngoVEPoc

Jim
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  #23  
Old 06-27-2013, 10:36 AM
Rvjimd Rvjimd is offline
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

Never one to slow down...how about this idea? The belt will drive the secondary drum and should slip enough to account for uneven drum speed due to line stacking. (One direction anyway, might not work going the other way?)



Would need to build a frame to hold both drums, but that should be easy.

(I wonder if I drink too much coffee in the morning?)

Jim

Last edited by Rvjimd; 06-27-2013 at 10:38 AM.
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  #24  
Old 06-27-2013, 12:56 PM
Rvjimd Rvjimd is offline
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

Hum.....

I was hoping that the taper on the two belt pulleys would cause the drive belt to shift from one side to the other side when the direction changes. What actually happens is the belt (rubber band) walks to one side and stays there no matter the direction of rotation.

I was going to use this setup to give alternating speed to the cable drums for each direction. That way I could go to two drums instead of one, and the slack issue would be managed by the taper drums.



If it worked, I was going to use a longer shaft on each axel and drive the cable drums from the extensions.

Jim
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  #25  
Old 06-27-2013, 01:45 PM
modelman modelman is offline
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

Jim- what you have seems to work pretty well. If you need more travel just make a longer drum and support the outer end. The-2-drum idea? I think that will be trouble-(just my opinion). I always say when building use the K.I.S.S. method Enjoying watching your work and I am sure you are learning as you go. Have fun.
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  #26  
Old 06-27-2013, 03:30 PM
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

Jim, have you considered using a chain drive, driven by the servo? Continuous operation, in either direction, no tracking issues, and you could probably mount a cam to the chain to engage a dog on the barge, to pull or push where you want it. Might be a little more reliable and simpler. It may not be the scale look you are after though..? There is some pretty small and light chain you could use, with sprockets designed to bolt right to a servo output shaft. Couldn't be easier. Just use a simple method (idler sprocket) to keep your chain tight, and you're good to go!

http://www.servocity.com/html/sprockets___chain.html
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  #27  
Old 06-27-2013, 04:03 PM
Rvjimd Rvjimd is offline
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

ESP,

Ya, I was thinking about that yesterday as a matter of fact. I actually already have some chain and two servo heads from servo city. I may try that at some point. I wish I could find some smaller chain, I remember some bent wire stuff from an old clock or something from my boyhood tinkering days...

For those of you still following along, here is a picture I found from a company that makes the full scale systems.







The Wintech Uni-Move System is a single winch system in which cables exit the winch in both directions. This type of system is commonly referred to as a continuous loop or one rope on/one rope off system. Uni-Move is available with both single speed and variable speed drives. The winch drum is grooved and is designed to accommodate the total shuttle travel of the barge. Total travel distance in a continuous loop system is limited to the length of cable contained in a single layer.

Note where at the end they state the total available travel is limited to the single wrap cable length. " I could have told em that."

Jim
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  #28  
Old 06-27-2013, 04:11 PM
Rvjimd Rvjimd is offline
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

Servo motor question...

With a typical servo, is there a way to reduce the power off drag/braking effect?

If I could reduce the unpowered brake on either servo, I would be able to power ONLY the in feed winch and let the tailing winch free wheel. This would eliminate the slack cable issue.

With the futaba S148 that I'm am using now, the unpowered brake is to strong to expect it to unwind without a LOT of pull.

I think the braking effect is all coming from the stack of gears on the top of the servo.

Jim
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  #29  
Old 06-27-2013, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

Hey Jim have you thought about using 2 drums on your winch and connecting a rubber band or small spring to pick up any slack or tension .This could be added mid point of your tow line .might be worth a try
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  #30  
Old 06-27-2013, 05:10 PM
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

What if the cable didnt have to wrap all the way around the drum. It should not take much force at all to move the barges. If you built it like a basic rope tow at a ski resort you wouldnt have the problem with the calbe walking on the drum. Put a large traction wheel on the motor with smaller pullys below it on both sides. The cable is fed in below the small pulley, around the traction wheel and back out under the other small pulley. You could even spring load the pulleys to maintain tension.

Kind of like the block used to pull up the pots on deadliest catch.

http://www.kolstrand.com/catalog/pro...71/image/2303/



Here is another homemade version of a ski tow that shows the principle I am talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBXNlPtOtWo
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  #31  
Old 06-27-2013, 05:14 PM
Rvjimd Rvjimd is offline
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

Good ideas all! I thought I was going to need a spring, just to keep tension on the system.

I like the tow rope idea. I should be able to do something like that.
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  #32  
Old 06-27-2013, 05:59 PM
Rvjimd Rvjimd is offline
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

FB,

That was a great idea! I should try to find some smaller tires and wheels so the speed is a bit slower. I also need to clean up the dock, move the eyes out to the ends of the dock, and I will drill directly to the top of the dock instead of my temp blocks. And fasten the winch motor down. Probably move the motor to one end of the dock.

Here is the ride along in the barge test video.
http://youtu.be/Hd5SZlAa9c4


Thanks a bunch for all the suggestions and brain power!

Jim
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  #33  
Old 06-27-2013, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

Glad I could help. That works really well. Your right a smaller tire would do the trick. Dont count on me offering up another good idea for a long time, one per year is about all I am good for. As I have said before, I appreciate you sharing with us. Your pond and creations are awesome. With the new babies, this forum is the only involvement I have time for in this great hobby.
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  #34  
Old 06-27-2013, 10:50 PM
Rvjimd Rvjimd is offline
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Default Re:barge position system

Here is a quick video of the final install of my barge position system.

http://youtu.be/0s6T4S_-ZIM

Jim
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  #35  
Old 06-28-2013, 02:16 PM
modelman modelman is offline
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

Jim-I think you got it! Looks perfect to me. Is your motor set-up waterproof or is it portable so you can get it out of the weather. Do you know how long it takes to load-1-barge with the conveyor? Nice job!
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  #36  
Old 06-28-2013, 02:27 PM
Rvjimd Rvjimd is offline
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

Tom,

Thanks. The motor would probably be ok in the rain. I'm planning to build a simple little shed to put over it mostly for looks. The way it turned out, the bracket the motor and wheels are attached to is sprung just a bit and simply slides in between the two angle brackets that are bolted down to the concrete. So, it is simply lift out, no tools required.

I think it is about 1/3 faster loading with the conveyor, from 15 minutes down to 10. May be a bit better now with the dock winch. I should build a silo to store sand and another conveyor. It would be neat to get the conveyor running full load, I'll bet it would load a barge in five minutes or less if the silo was full and held at least a barge load of sand.

Jim

Last edited by Rvjimd; 06-28-2013 at 02:28 PM. Reason: Typo
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  #37  
Old 06-28-2013, 05:58 PM
modelman modelman is offline
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

The silo would be a nice addition to your "mini diorama". I noticed on one of the loading videos that you were having a hard time with the dragline keeping up with the conveyor. Just need more practice . Or perhaps a larger collector on the conveyor that you could fill before starting it and maybe then the dragline could keep up. Just a suggestion, you are doing a great job. I am a "water nut" and if I had this set-up 20yrs. ago you would have never got me away from the site.
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  #38  
Old 06-28-2013, 08:15 PM
Rvjimd Rvjimd is offline
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

Tom,

I was wrong on the times. Loaded 1.5 barges today using the new winch, conveyor and dragline.

It must have been 30 minutes to load one with out the conveyor, the new time for one is 20. I gain a bit by not having to swing 180 with every lift.

Need to get back on the screen separator and u loading dock, and gantry crane using the clam bucket.

Better get to work!

Jim
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  #39  
Old 06-28-2013, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

nice setup u have for the barges do u need a tug boat to pull them
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  #40  
Old 07-01-2013, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Barge Unloading Facility Build

Just thought I would post a link to this video for you. I happened across this one today, and thought it was a really nice model.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4PGbhXjNPM
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