What construction "Kit" to get.

[FastEddy]

Its time do do a build. (NOOB)
Im looking for a kit that is fully functional.
Im a highly skilled kit builder but not good at DYI fab.
Anything that moves dirt is cool. My eye has a backhoe in mind but the dozers are sweet.

Suggestions on a KIT that is challenging would be grateful.
Im not familiar with whats good and whats not, where to buy, or the going prices.

Thanks,
-Ed

[fhhhstix]

Try PMD he is a vendor here on the forum. Link to his web site

Travis

[grumpygrady]

i think you should read a few [make that a lot] of the posts here and then decide ,
but when it comes down to it you are the one that has to be happy not the guys on here ,and when you sink 4 or 5 thousand dollars in a kit you had better like everything about it ,.
also check out some of the german forums and the italian forums
good luck

[Izzy]

the 966 was a good challenge - had to go get 2 sets of hemostats to get all those 1.5mm screws in.

[MoRockN]

When I was looking for an excavator I wanted to focus on the scale look of the machine with my current fleet of trucks, a lot of the machines can be too big and heavy, they would dig up almost anything you throw at them, but when it was time to load a dump truck or bring a trailer next to it for transport, it would look soo out of scale that it almost made them (the trucks) look toy-ish (for my taste). The 966 wheel loader, the wedico 345 cat and the Leimbach 922 Leibherr are my #1 choices. I would stay away from anything made in HK, if it's cheap that means there is a big reason for it. German made stuff is the best in my opinion when it comes to heavy machines. Good luck!

[pigeonfarmboy]

Welcome to the board Eddy. Been using some of your 5b stuff for a good while now.

It's hard to beat the 966 Wedico as far as capabilities and overall workhorse role. It's a pain to build, but that's why we're here to help. Mostly out of sequence instructions and you'll have to drill or countersink a bunch of holes. As Izzy said, the hardware is really small and that makes alot of fitment tricky. Nobody makes a backhoe kit, too small to cram in all the hydraulics and rc gear. (The 966 is bad enough as is)

If you're really set on tracks, what about a track loader? It definitely costs more than the Wedico, but ScaleArt makes a ridiculous Cat 963. Scaleart quality can't even be compared to Wedico in my book.

All depends on how much cash you wanna throw at it if you're not a scratch builder. Used market for this stuff is pretty much non-existent in the states.

[Lil Giants]

Don't try PMD for anything construction equipment!

If you want a robust strong running, dirt working model, stay away from anything wedico! That pot metal cast aluminum is fast wearing crap that breaks easily.

Fumotec (Frank) has a WA500-6 wheel loader coming out later this year and if the quality/functionality/durabilty is anything like his dump trks, it will stomp the wedico 966 crap easily!

Frank works for Vario Helicopters, they produce and market his 80lbs excavator that he designed. I have this track hoe, it will dig hard ground! Frank will be busy with Spring trade shows, could be a little time delay with his replies, but he does write good english.

Deal direct with Frank, pay by bank wire, quality excellent, prices very reasonable.

And without a doubt, Scale Art is another great choice for fine quality, richly detailed, durable models and truck parts. Someday I hope to get a Caterpillar 963 track loader myself.

[Izzy]

Ed - sorry to take band width to discuss an issue that is not directly tied to your question - but I have to stand up and make a comment or two.

Joe - I think youve had some issues with PMD - I have had no problems at all with PMD or with Wedico - the 966 hasn't missed a beat - at all. and frankly you are only one of three peolpe I know with one that has had 'real' issues that I know of. Calm and sedated had some issues - but they were fairly resolved (first issue loader had some tweaks that were resolved in the 3rd batch and buyers had to ask for the upgrade parts if they were having issues - really no different than auto repair bullitiens - you never know about them until you have issues.) PFB had issues with his loader - blew out the coupler ring and the drive shafts - The coupler ring got super hard and brittle (material issue) and the drive shafts are still a weak link in my mind.

But - I do not know of anybody else in the world who expects a 1/16 mdoel of a real loader to assist in digging their basement logging as many hours as you do. Impressive as **** yes, but down right biased. **** your rock crusher is made of 1/4 plate steel - in 1:1 that would be 14" thick. why didn't you use 22ga - because you know it would fail and not hold up.

So my point is - take a little consideration of the abuse and **** that you put your models through before you bash a product that has failed you.

---------

Ed - best wishes in your search for a model

As for PMD - he has responded to my needs rather appropriately. But then again I don't buy that many fo these highly expensive largge models. I do know others who have issues and it seems to me that the core issue is that RIC does not stock many replacement parts.

BTW - these models represent

[Espeefan]

Points well taken, from both sides of the fence, but you really should consider what you get for the money. Compare the costs and then take a look at the model. See what they are capable of, and how they are built. It goes without saying that a model should be more robust, and built to last, if it's main frame is laser cut out of steel, vs. stamped aluminum sheet metal. When you get down to the nitty gritty details, the difference becomes really apparent. Maybe none of us will ever work our models as hard as Joe, but it's still nice to know that you could, if you wanted. More importantly, if it survives under Joe's brutal use, it should last some of us who run them more gently, a life time, and that's important. If you are dropping that much coin on a RC model, you will want to be sure that your purchase is a good one. If I am not mistaken, the Vario excavator is really not that much more expensive then Wedico's excavator, but the Vario is something like 5 times the machine. I'm just saying it pays to carefully research things so you can make a good, educated decision. It is, after all, a lot of money to put up for a big boy's toy!

[Lil Giants]

Yes, I have had issues with pmd and yes, I have had issues with wedico too... all of which have been poorly resolved in the past, which is why I don't deal with them anymore, nor do I ignore unsuspecting newbies seeking information of the rc construction model hobby to get unknowningly tangled in their web too.

It's "your money, spend it where you want to", but atleast they'll know going in what to might expect if they choose that path.

Originally Posted by Izzy

(first issue loader had some tweaks that were resolved in the 3rd batch and buyers had to ask for the upgrade parts if they were having issues - really no different than auto repair bullitiens - you never know about them until you have issues.)

3rd batch?! wedico sold 499 Caterpillar 966G loaders before they Finally fixed their flawed hinged point in the steering with #500.. it wasn't just an oversight in a couple of batches of production, they sold that flawed loader for over 6 or 7yrs.. anybody who didn't read forums was never informed of that one particular problem by pmd, nor wdc!

1st the hinge goes out, then the steering cyls & driveshafts quickly followed! Sell more parts $$$$ I guess.. +$5000 should be good for something more than ground rubber and 10 hrs run time between repairs.. I think

I knew before hand and fabbed my own brass bushed hinge during assembly. Mine was #327 in March of 2005.. what year was it when the upgrade came out? 07? 08?

What production number loader is your's Izzy? .. if you want to talk specifics..


And there's wdc's long list of problems with the 740 adt & 345 track hoe (I scrapped my 740 with barely 20hrs run time on it in 2yrs.. after the 2nd or 3rd charge from new, I couldn't get it to run for entire charge of 3.6amp after that without something failing.. belt in trans, dive axles, crown & pinion, dump cyl, driveshafts, ect)... how long before those models are properly engineered with "upgrade parts" -> at an additional cost to the customer?! (unlike the auto recalls; the manufacturer supplies the parts & leave it to the dealers to either absorb the cost to install or past it on to their customers)


With the exception of my Vario JD850, all other models I have (Stahl, Tamiya, scratchbuilt) are digging in "loose or cultivated" soil & it's only the wdc crap I was wrenching on inside of 10hrs run time of new!

It's not a "rock crusher", it's a dirt lump crusher and it's built from 1/8" plate & 3/4" steel bar b/c it's readily available to me & easy for me to work with.. and besides, the hard dirt lumps can't be scaled to 1/14th density.

B/c of my notoriety of my basement excavation, it's put me in touch with ppl all over the world, but primarily ppl within north amercia looking to get started in the construction equipment hobby. And I've heard lots about pmd's service or rather, the lack of it!

You guys like his trk parts.. fine! But he don't know shyt about the rc construction world & if you have trouble, he can't help you.. other than you sending back your model & pmd having one their tech's build - rebuild your model for more $$$$..

One such instance lately with one of pmd's customers stuck on a problem with the Cat 345 track hoe.. why didn't pmd refer "our" forum as a means to seek information to help the individual build his model?! I think the reason why is quite obvious...

Izzy, I think you're an intelligent, highly skilled builder/scratchbuilder, you have given oodles of your free time over the last 5yrs to help others grow with knowledge & new techniques. And lately, now you're offering builders kits of one of a kind trls at very reasonable prices. You are a fine fellow & your integrity can not be questioned by anyone!

.. but I have been around a lot longer than you, I've bought a lot of different kits & parts from various manufacturers & individuals, I've seen a lot more go on behind the scenes.. and I haven't done anything to anyone to put my own credibility into question either.. I'm not here to sell anything. My only purpose is to share information of my own experiences over the last 15yrs freely with anyone who wishes to learn from it.

[rcguyfarms]

fasteddy, I would suggest to stay away from premade construction models. Building a kit helps u learn about the model and that is handy when u have issues. I can't say which brand to buy, u should try and find someone close to u that has these. Seeing these models in person is ten times better then watching videos.

[pigeonfarmboy]

Definitely some good points. Wish I had this information when I was first buying equipment.

To be fair though, Joe you haven't touched on any negatives for the Vario Excavator. I've got a pile of cash tied into mine and it's currently sitting in my basement not functioning. I think it has a total of 10 hrs currently and I've had it apart a couple times already.

I think the key point to make here is it doesn't seem like any available models are put through the paces in development to assure a quality product in the end. On the other hand I don't know of any RC product that lasts under hard use without needed repairs/maintenance.

It also greatly depends on what material you expect to work with. Dirt/sand/gravel without a doubt makes the model work much harder.

I suppose noone has mentioned the RC4WD excavator option in this thread. Depending on your available funds to get into this crap, it may be your only option you can currently afford.

[Lil Giants]

Originally Posted by pigeonfarmboy

To be fair though, Joe you haven't touched on any negatives for the Vario Excavator.

Very true! I have had problems with the Vario excavator during & after assembly, BUT! Vario & Fumotec both were willing to work with work me to sort out the problems.. unlike wdc that blows me off by calling me a substandard builder who doesn't read instructions properly which is the result of the problems I was having..

..within a few hrs, my 1st problem with the 740 was snapping off the rod eye from dump cyl. The angle of the rod eye was different when cyl retracted/box down than fully extended/box up, flexing the rod eye on the end of piston rod back & forth till it broke off!

I suggested on a german forum that there should be a flexible eye (like what's used in some 4 link suspension systems of rock crawlers) installed to relieve that stress.. 6 months after wdc insulted me, they did just that, offered an upgrade kit with the swivel eye rod end, but even then, cheaped out with plastic instead of brass and the weight of the dump box destroyed them in no time flat anyway.

I cured my problem by oversizing the pin holes in the box so the pin could freely flex.

Vario, I think they used up their inventory of the "old track drive" system before coming out with the new one (that you now have) and that cheeses me a little bit! However, they did recognize the problem & came up with a solid solution! But there again, there is some builder's experienced knowledge that comes into play during assembly that is not noted in the instructions.. you must machine flat spots on all the steel shafts where set screws contact & blue lock tite all set screws so they do not come loose!

And then there is the swing drive issue that needs to be addressed as well, which I don't think Vario has come to terms with yet.. the positioning of the worm gear on the drive motor to the special brass gear on the vertical drive pinion needs to be precisely centered with shims for proper working order.

I didn't know this during assembly and ruined my gears. All the problems I had I discussed with the designer of the hoe, Frank and he gave me a free of charge solution to try (he told me not tell anybody, oops cat's out of the bag now )... the vertical motor -direct drive works perfect! It's dumby proof to install!

I haven't sent your's or other's new vertical swing drive out yet, but the weather looks bad for Monday, so I may get them in the mail then.

I operated Jammer's Vario hoe at cabin fever and his swing drive worked pretty good, could have done with a bit more tuning, but was working good at an extreme angle with just a bit of pulsating. So it is possible to get that worm drive to work properly (His model was built by Vario as well)

The vertical direct drive has way more swing power.. could be hard on the crown gear though, so use the power wisely.

I suppose noone has mentioned the RC4WD excavator option in this thread. Depending on your available funds to get into this crap, it may be your only option you can currently afford.

The RC4WD is RTR only, the author requested kit form to assemble for himself..

I think the RC4WD hoe should be left to experienced modelers as it's plagued with problems with both electronic & hydraulic that a newbie would be lost to figure out.. a couple of yrs of production and maybe those short comings will be resolved.

[pigeonfarmboy]

Ah good point on the "kit" factor. Didn't think of that. I think a big part of the Vario swing issue is the motor/gearbox is geared way too high for that application causing the pulsing when the gears let go of slack. Maybe not but it makes sense in my head.